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Author Topic: The Official Sandtrap HCE Remake (276 messages, Page 1 of 8)
Moderators: Dennis

YakZSmelk
Joined: Apr 3, 2006

- Environment Artist - robhow.com


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 04:44 AM    Msg. 1 of 276       
Welcome to the Official Sandtrap Halo Custom Edition topic!!
Sponsored in part by H3MT (Halo 3 Map Team) haha :P

I decided to move the topic into a new page so that it was strictly about the remake in the works, right now! For those of you that may have missed the original check it out here> http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=16411

This is Halo 3's Sandtrap, most of you know it as the biggest freakin' map ever, and if you've attempted to model it, you'd know sand just gets everywhere! Haha I kid!


And now that your all up to speed...let's get down to business;



Elephant/Bases
Clearly HaloCE's physics are considerably different from those in Halo 3, and it's been mentioned that many of you don't think the Elephant Base will work. Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with editing in HaloCE, I feel that the map can do fine without the Elephant, with minor modifications to the base areas. An idea was thrown my way earlier of making the Elephant as a piece of geometry, which in theory could work but I wanted some feedback from you guys, so please don't hold back, let me hear your ideas!



Equipment?
I have not been too active in Halo maps lately, so I have no idea if someone has managed to get working equipment into Halo CE. While I was modeling the Sniper hall I realized that without it, players will no longer be able to grav-lift up there. This could cause multiple problems with Flags and Balls so I've considered make a mound on the wall so that players can easily jump into the hall from the lower ground. Once again give me feedback. And if anyone has gotten equipment working let me know.


Ok as for this update I'm going to bed! I'll be back tomorrow, with some updated pics. If there's something you would like to suggest or a certain area that really plays well in Halo 3 that you want to make sure is intact post it. Here's the current build I'm showing off right now, alot more work has been done but...it's nothing too exciting.


Thanks alot everyone,
YakZSmelk
Edited by YakZSmelk on Apr 3, 2008 at 04:45 AM


RougeSpartan414
Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Angatar, the Iron-Father.


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 04:53 AM    Msg. 2 of 276       
Infinity is the biggest Bungie map, not SandTrap.


Newbkilla
Joined: Mar 9, 2008

- Artist, Environment Artist, Level Designer -


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 09:38 AM    Msg. 3 of 276       
Pretty good start.. Like henry said smooth it. And do you have the textures yet, and will you feature the chopper? If so, and the vehicles work, then I'll personally have to shake your hand.


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 11:15 AM    Msg. 4 of 276       
MY opinion is to work on the BSP layout design, textures and flow and not be concerned with the Halo CE created H3 custom weapons or custom vehicles. You can not replicate the Halo 3 feel in Halo Custom Edition because the physics engine are radically different in the games. Work on the level and use standard vehicles and weapons because most custom weapons unbalance the game. Be picky and sparse with weapon and health placement and consider Bungie's research on the level by using the overall heatmap of kills

Total Kills:


Then compare it to the Kills by the elephant to see how irrellevant the elephant is in the actual game play:

Kills by Elephant


Kills by Banshee


Kills by Ghost


Kills by Warthog gunner


These show that the ghost and the banshee are the two most used vehicles in the level. You can look at the various weapon heatmaps and see that the basic weapons are the ones that most people use.

This level can be fun without the custom stuff people try to jam into the game without any real thought.

Edited by Dennis on Apr 3, 2008 at 11:19 AM


CLS_GRUNT
Joined: Jan 21, 2007

Old


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 12:03 PM    Msg. 5 of 276       
Oshi. Ok ill se what I can do to get an elephant.


Dontu
Joined: Oct 8, 2006

42


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 01:43 PM    Msg. 6 of 276       
Put an elephant in if you want but I will guarentee that your hard work will be in vain because of two reasons.

1. The elephant, no matter how "epic," is a slow moving deathtrap.

2. The physics engine in halo will not allow players to spawn or stand on the elephant.

Like I said above you can make one, but you will be dissapointed by the result.


CLS_GRUNT
Joined: Jan 21, 2007

Old


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 02:12 PM    Msg. 7 of 276       
Well the elephant gose fairly slow, so you might be able to spawn on it ill have to check.


Dontu
Joined: Oct 8, 2006

42


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 02:22 PM    Msg. 8 of 276       
Spawing a player in a seat might work, but you cannot place spawns in Sapien on vehicles.


Rm860
Joined: Sep 7, 2006

Dennis sleeps like this!


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 02:23 PM    Msg. 9 of 276       
Guys he isn't stupid he knows that you can use the Elephant (if made) like you can in halo 3.

I either would make the Elephant part of the bsp, like a broken down Elephant as a base or do as Dennis said just don't worry about making it.

that modeling so far is amazing, i think you are the perfect person do to this.
Edited by Rm860 on Apr 3, 2008 at 02:24 PM


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 08:16 PM    Msg. 10 of 276       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jake Anderson
Me thinks this should have the Shoop Da Whoop mobile (Elephant... I mean.. Come on. just LOOK at its mouth. Its a lazar waitin to happen)



Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 08:38 PM    Msg. 11 of 276       
The point of my post is that the heat maps show that what you think is a cool addition to the game is actually not relevant at all to actual game play. This is what having statistics can show. It shows that perceptions do not always match fact. If you want to be a game level designer you not only have to listen to what people say but watch what they do. In this case what they do is not what they say they will do.

And as others here have said a moving elephant like in Halo 3 is impossible to pull off in Halo CE because the physics engines are radically different.


ThePlague
Joined: Dec 16, 2007

Steam: jubalearlybh


Posted: Apr 3, 2008 09:16 PM    Msg. 12 of 276       
The map looks good, but just as everyone else is saying "smooth it"

It will look more like Halo 3


RougeSpartan414
Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Angatar, the Iron-Father.


Posted: Apr 4, 2008 03:37 PM    Msg. 13 of 276       
You also have to remeber the structures are not solid, they are blocks. Look at the slanted peices on the left bridge in the picture, the are no attached and straight, but slanted and seperated.


gamegodlazy
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Please pass the Panda Sauce to me


Posted: Apr 5, 2008 05:12 PM    Msg. 14 of 276       
just dont make the map to sandlike :P

like i think you should make the elephants as bases or maybe jsut make soem of the bases urself maybe forerunner or something (dont have h3 so idk what style those structrures are (like wtf i cant spel structures propperly) and make it as good it work as good as possible for halo ce that way


Nexus Halo
Joined: Feb 24, 2007

Halo's Dark Knight http://www.nexushalo.kk5.org/


Posted: Apr 5, 2008 06:28 PM    Msg. 15 of 276       
The model looks great but it looks too small. Like the structures are smashed together.


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Apr 5, 2008 06:36 PM    Msg. 16 of 276       
Sandtrap has no interesting gameplay gameplay. I'd make a differnt map if were you.


Nexus Halo
Joined: Feb 24, 2007

Halo's Dark Knight http://www.nexushalo.kk5.org/


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 01:36 AM    Msg. 17 of 276       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Sandtrap has no interesting gameplay gameplay. I'd make a differnt map if were you.


It has horrible gameplay.


supersniper
Joined: Jul 28, 2007

fear the sniper


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 01:44 AM    Msg. 18 of 276       
Agreed, but The Pit has great gameplay... ^^^


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 02:38 AM    Msg. 19 of 276       
The climbable surfaces idea was already proposed for something once.

DG Jin confirms it does NOT allow one to stick to a vehicle.


Wolf_
Joined: May 16, 2006


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 05:11 AM    Msg. 20 of 276       
The pit would be a must^^


gamegodlazy
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Please pass the Panda Sauce to me


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 05:42 AM    Msg. 21 of 276       
hmmm put na spartan laser in it


DG Jin
Joined: May 15, 2007

May the lulz be strong in you


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 06:43 AM    Msg. 22 of 276       
you rang? and yes I've tried it before it ate the player >_> ask selentic for feedback he was there during most of the tests


Donut
Joined: Sep 30, 2006

I swear I'm not actually dead


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 11:49 AM    Msg. 23 of 276       
ok well lets say this: i have this elite biped who cant die when hes run over by a banshee..... so ya you could go off of that: vehicle damage effects in globals


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 12:38 PM    Msg. 24 of 276       
Supposedly if a device were to go slow enough you can stick to it, but vehicles? nah.


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 12:46 PM    Msg. 25 of 276       
Quote: --- Original message by: eliteaxmen
pshhh, are u kidding, the lightest tap os a ghost would kill you, but as donut said, vehicle globals damage effects. i hate not being able to accomplish wat im looking forward to


Setting up vehicle damage stuff is relatively easy to do. I cannot exactly remember what I did to make vehicles not kill upon love-tapping a player.

I would also like to see it set up to where the harder one rams some wall or object when in a vehicle, the more damage they take. I cannot remember how I did this either... its fun on some things though...


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
-
Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 01:05 PM    Msg. 26 of 276       
Lol... I think I have a video to upload to xfire that shows me flying into a cliff and not only getting injured, but dying on impact.


DEEhunter
Joined: Dec 16, 2006


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 01:07 PM    Msg. 27 of 276       
No wai. People die from falling of cliffs?


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 01:12 PM    Msg. 28 of 276       
I did not say that...

I said flying INTO cliffs:

Quote: Lol... I think I have a video to upload to xfire that shows me flying into a cliff and not only getting injured, but dying on impact.


http://www.xfire.com/video/1455/
http://www.xfire.com/video/1456/
Edited by Enzo03 on Apr 6, 2008 at 01:14 PM


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 04:23 PM    Msg. 29 of 276       
I set up collision damage stuffs in sapien GUERILLA
Edited by Enzo03 on Apr 6, 2008 at 05:19 PM


Enzo03
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Screenshot Guru
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Joined: Aug 3, 2007

I'd rather go without than take what you'd bring.


Posted: Apr 6, 2008 05:20 PM    Msg. 30 of 276       
Surprised you did not noticed I accidentally said sapien... since it involves editing the vehicle collision globals


YakZSmelk
Joined: Apr 3, 2006

- Environment Artist - robhow.com


Posted: Apr 7, 2008 03:17 AM    Msg. 31 of 276       
Sorry it's been so long since I've responded guys, a new quarter just started so I have HW and projects again so my available time to work on this remake has been reduced considerably. I'm gonna try to respond to all of you but thanks for the support and for those of you that are not fans of Sandtrap (I started this because of a request, and am partial myself) hopefully I can figure out a new configuration for the map and make fans out of you all!!

Elephants and Hippos, Oh my!!
Ok so the first line of business, the Elephant. Nothing is finalized yet so anything could happen, I believe the H3MT is working on figuring out a way to create the behemoth, but Dennis makes a great point with the Heatmaps. I may have also mentioned this in my original post, but frankly the Elephant sucks for gametypes other than Assault and CTF and even then it feels a little...boring yawn*. To counter this extremely boring vehicle, I've started concept a new vehicle that could be implemented for all gametypes, and hopefully add to the all around excitement of the map. ;)

State of the Map Address
For those of you worried about the 'edginess' of the map, don't worry! What I've posted so far is all box modeled, I can assure you the final will be much 'smoother' and 'ruined'. I probably should have told you guys earlier but now you know, and the more you know! Ah whatever you all know how it goes. The Albatross and Phantom have not been forgotten, I'm modeling them separately and am also considering make more unearthed structures on the East and West sides of the map, to replace the ugly downed Phantom and add some cover to the plains of sand on the other side. So if you have an idea or request speak up and be heard! There was also a few comments about scale and I can assure you the only issues with scale exist in the rear of the large base (which I'm working on) everything else feels niceaah (yeah I made up that word, gotta problem?).


And here's a draft lit verison of my version in H2V with basic shaders, I know your all here for the HCE version but I have no idea where my disc, so hopfully this will wet your whistle.



YakZSmelk
Edited by YakZSmelk on Apr 7, 2008 at 03:20 AM


thecow777
Joined: Mar 7, 2008

in game name: All_levels


Posted: Apr 7, 2008 05:01 AM    Msg. 32 of 276       
looking good, and I'm glad you stated the edges will be smoothened as that dosn't look that realistic. Like dennis said, the elephant isn't all that neceseray(how ever you spell it). I play xboxlive and often we use the elephant and have fun with it but only 1/5times and never for a full match, its too slow and boring. Also I never knew they had banshees on sandtrap, but then again I mainly only play it for infection and rocket race. I hope this map is released soon. I wanna play it.


Rhydgaled Publications
Joined: May 10, 2007

I have many questions (can't fit URL in though)


Posted: Apr 7, 2008 06:44 AM    Msg. 33 of 276       
Personally I think the multi flag capture the flag games on Sandtrap are anoying because of the moving bases. In my opinion you should make Elephants that are part of the bsp for the bases but also release a .gbxmodel of it for anyone who feels like trying to make pepole stick to it (as far as I know this is imposible, I have tried it with a scenery tag of a cable car and even though I had suposedly solid walls to stop the player falling out the cable car still moved off leaving the player behind. The player went right through the wall.)


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Apr 7, 2008 10:08 AM    Msg. 34 of 276       
I didn't even think you would get this ingame. Guess that says something about you ;). Good job.


CLS_GRUNT
Joined: Jan 21, 2007

Old


Posted: Apr 7, 2008 12:33 PM    Msg. 35 of 276       
Quote: --- Original message by: YakZSmelk
And here's a draft lit verison of my version in H2V with basic shaders, I know your all here for the HCE version but I have no idea where my disc, so hopfully this will wet your whistle.



YakZSmelk
Edited by YakZSmelk on Apr 7, 2008 at 03:20 AM

I guess I can get a beta ingame...No textures though, Also im adding various details thoughout the map.

 
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