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Author Topic: Bipeds - Work in Process thread [WIP] (6707 messages, Page 192 of 192)
Moderators: Dennis

Joined: Aug 27, 2012

Kick back, drink a chai!

Posted: Oct 11, 2018 03:48 PM    Msg. 6686 of 6707       
Halomaps is dead. Long live Halomaps.

Modacity and Halomaps are very, very dead. You'll have better luck finding current Halo CE community members over at https://opencarnage.net/. There are also several Halo CE communities in separate Discord servers. Ask people on OpenCarnage for invitations.

These models seem to be the scrapped marine concept from the Halo E3 2000 Demo, albeit with greener clothing. Someone with a beta or alpha copy of Halo might be able to extract this old marine concept.
Edited by VoidsShadow on Oct 11, 2018 at 03:49 PM

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 11, 2018 08:50 PM    Msg. 6687 of 6707       
Fair enough. By the looks of things though I doubt there'd be any more people or content to find as no sites, YouTube, forums or google searches are showing me any new things...

So what I did and my idea to push forward to someone bored or looking for a biped to rig...

I used the armoured marine biped and cut his head off. I inserted the non-armoured marine heads (haired ones, boonie hat and bandanna [no sarge hats as the armoured marines already have them]).

I then made a copy of the marine above and then chopped his arms off. I replaced them with pulled sleeve arms from the non-armoured marine.

Obviously importing models into 3DS MAX are not going to be structured in any way or textured so since there's nothing on it its impossible for me to do now. There are no tutorials explaining the process of how to make anything from scratch or editing existing models. So yeah I reckon it'll be a sick lore friendly mod if an experienced biped rigger is bored or a modder needs an idea, hell if not, tell me how to do it and ill do it myself and put it up.
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 11, 2018 at 08:52 PM

Joined: Mar 19, 2010

"ideological sense of respect and tact of a 5yo"

Posted: Oct 11, 2018 09:33 PM    Msg. 6688 of 6707       
Quote: --- Original message by: VoidsShadow

Halomaps is dead. Long live Halomaps.

Let's be real, this website won't die until well after Dennis is long gone, and Halo CE is literally unable to be played anymore.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 12, 2018 11:22 AM    Msg. 6689 of 6707       
Well I got the 3DS MAX scenes ready to go if someone wants to put the shaders on and rig the model, as I read that importing a biped GBX model needs to be re-rigged.

You can take full credit, don't even mention me, I'm serious. I just crave some new marine bipeds to use dam it!

Alternate- If nobody is interested, why not tell me, if I were to import a marine biped, how do I go about re-rigging and putting the shaders back on to get it working for CE again? I'd do this myself but there is literally nothing on this.

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 12, 2018 11:02 PM    Msg. 6690 of 6707       
Which importer and which settings did you use to import the model?
From memory there should be an envelope collapser with the rig still on the bones

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 13, 2018 11:10 AM    Msg. 6691 of 6707       
Oh your post tickles my special places, I feel like we're getting somewhere now.

Ok so what I did. I opened my 3ds max 2013 and used the: "GBXModel Importer v2 by TheGhost" as the script's window title says in 3DS MAX. I cannot remember where I got it from, so version wise, no dice.

I import the marine_armored.gbxmodel with-
Select LOD- superhigh
Select Model region: Arms Select Model Permutation- __base
Import Geometry Selection: Selected Permutation from All Regions, import model geometry, import all nodes, import markers
Model Geometry Options: All boxes ticked
Node/Marker Options: No boxes ticked node radius-2 marker radius-1

The marine is all grey, no shaders, in his t-pose, has little balls in certain parts, and the object list has everything separated, nothing linked. It has: Head, legs, torso, arms, #body and other #, biped01 head and other biped01 bits.

Is that how I am supposed to begin? The only thing I did was delete the armoured marine head model and imported the non-armoured marine head. After this, I dunno what to do. The one tutorial I followed was for a custom model from scratch and well, it didn't work. I need to know how to make vanilla edits. By what you've just said Spartan, it looks like I already screwed up at the import stage...

Here is what it looks like on my end... I'll upload more images here if need be: https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 13, 2018 at 11:30 AM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 13, 2018 08:43 PM    Msg. 6692 of 6707       
When importing bipeds you should have "Import All Nodes as Bones" ticked.
Because you have "Import Vertex Weights" ticked off too you should see an envelope collapser on your right side of the screen. This means you've imported the model correctly with the rig data.
Try rotating a few bones once you've done so to check if the rig is there or not

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 13, 2018 11:45 PM    Msg. 6693 of 6707       
Oh... One simple box tick was all that I missed... There's a moveable skeleton now. Finally, progress.

Ok, ok, now that this part is all cleared up and I swapped the head over for the other marine head, what's the next process? Texturing? Animating?

I assume since I am doing a simple model swap, this shouldn't be too difficult?

UPDATE: proof of skeleton- https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE

AND the model I am hoping to get into Halo...
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 14, 2018 at 12:03 AM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 14, 2018 04:14 AM    Msg. 6694 of 6707       
Set up your materials like you would any other gbxmodel you'd export.
Rip the bitmaps into .tif files for you to apply onto the model, the UVW unwraps should be saved for you to just drag and drop.
After that you'd probably have to rerig the head to bip01 head because it's a separate model.
Once you're happy with that all you gotta do is export it and reorganize shaders for you to use ingame.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 14, 2018 05:16 AM    Msg. 6695 of 6707       
Re-rig the head? Jeez. I've never rigged a biped before. This will be fun (sarcasm).

I'll post the results in a moment...

EDIT: Never mind... Figured out the texturing thing... I'll be a while...

EDIT2: Well, crap. I actually did it. I managed to texture it properly and export the damn model without an error. NOW. Like my custom maps, I wont get my hopes up high because there is one LAST obstacle... TOOL... How do I turn my testman.jms into a gbx model and all that?

EDIT3: Yep here we go again with the Tool BS. Cannot make a collision and the damn thing has no animations. I don't understand, how do people make custom models and use spartan or marine animations but my model, being a marine, cannot use any animations?! I think I'm going to smash my head off of a table now. I followed Yoda's tutorial with his swat dude, after I exported my model I used the marine animations and collision (he chose spartan animations and collisions) and when in Sapien I get the biped error saying it cannot be collidable or animated...

EDIT4: Ok so I got it into Sapien. However, when I put him down, he is stuck in a T-POSE and I got the non-collidable error: the model 'characters\marine_armored_nohelmet\marine_armored_nohelmet' and the collision model 'characters\marine_armored\marine_armored' don't match (region counts don't match)

UPDATE: He is now in the game but not collidable- https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE

EDIT5: Ok, so it exports with no markers or permutations... I got two issues, that, and the collision. What the hell do I do now? This is actually getting frustrating now. I see why nobody else can do this...

EDIT6: Ok I fixed my tags and started again. I'm very persistent... So I got the collisions working... FINALLY... Funny, I can never fix those triangle errors on bsps but for scenery and bipeds its so simple... Anyway, although there are no errors, the guy is stuck in a T-POSE..... What did I miss or do wrong? If you look carefully he is breathing and moving slightly but that's it, he's doing the T.

See the progress: https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 15, 2018 at 01:32 AM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 15, 2018 08:25 AM    Msg. 6696 of 6707       
You probably didn't copy paste the node checksum from the animations tag to the model tag in Guerilla.
If you're technically using the same bones and the same animations there shouldn't be an issue once you've overwritten the node checksum thing.
It's been a while and I don't have the HEK on me but it should be near the top (or the bottom?) of the animation tag in Guerilla.

Holy crap it's been over a decade since the start of this thread
Edited by Spartan314 on Oct 15, 2018 at 08:26 AM
Edited by Spartan314 on Oct 15, 2018 at 08:26 AM

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 15, 2018 09:01 AM    Msg. 6697 of 6707       
And a decade ago there were nice well done biped mods, now there are my crappy ambitious failure of bipeds...

Yeah this is what's confusing me, I followed a tutorial and read to do exactly that, but mine still refuses to animate. I noticed my model exports with NO perms and markers. MAYBE I forgot to link something? Do you know of any trees or how to set perms or export markers OR something? Something here MUST be wrong in 3DS MAX, I either didn't link something properly or I missed something... Normally I'd give up but I've never gotten this far and I feel like we're soooo close. And be we I mean you and I. Because if it weren't for you, this would of still been a 'to-do' (try) item for me...

If we ever pull this off, I'll forever be in your debt. PLUS, Ill be making a god damn tutorial to show folks how to EDIT an existing biped and put it back into the game.

See my new reference-

EDIT: It must have something to do with the markers and perms not exporting or being linked incorrectly or not properly made into a region or something... Definitely a 3DS MAX step gone wrong, must be...
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 15, 2018 at 09:09 AM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 15, 2018 10:45 AM    Msg. 6698 of 6707       
There's no need to be so self deprecating, you're the one doing all the work.
Again, I couldn't really give you detailed help even if I'd like because I don't have Halo.
From your screens I'm guessing the markers are linked to their proper nodes.

I dunno, how do you have your biped tag set up?
Did you reuse the old one or have you copy pasted it or what

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 15, 2018 02:16 PM    Msg. 6699 of 6707       
Tag wise? The GBX is untouched, apart from adding that animation value. And the biped tag? I just copied and pasted the marine_armored biped and changed its GBX model to the one I exported.

EDIT: I ran another test, so apart from that main issue (could this be affecting it?) when I export with all the different marine heads, my biped in the game spawns with literally all heads on the body at once... Now that definitely has to do with the marker/perm sections being blank.

Unless this is tag related, my JMS exporter must be broken or there is something I missed for sure. Although I have everything on the right bone, did the body part have to be linked to the #whatever body part marker or vice versa? The problem must be here somewhere...

I'll fiddle with the tags again. But my money is on 1 simple small mistake I did in 3DS MAX... If not, well I guess my tools are dodgy compared to others...
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 15, 2018 at 02:22 PM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 15, 2018 10:21 PM    Msg. 6700 of 6707       
Okay. Why do you have 10 different head objects in your 3dsmax scene?
If they're actually 10 different heads (that you've hidden or have somehow become hidden) they might have exported together with your single head.
Unhide everything in Max and see what you get.

Don't be so quick to assume something is because of something else. Correlation != Causation

Markers should always be linked to nodes, never the other way around.

And your tools probably most definitely aren't dodgy.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 16, 2018 10:41 AM    Msg. 6701 of 6707       
Why do I have 10 heads? Remember I said I was going to use the armoured marine body and have all the non-armoured marine heads on it such as the boonie hat, bandanna and baldy/hairy dudes? Basically I copied the structure from the marine.gbx, in its list it has like 10 head objects, 1 for each of the heads all one after the other in the list.

I took a screenshot of the object list both collapsed and uncollapsed: https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE

Ignoring the dozen head objects, are they linked correctly? ...I didn't have to link the body parts to anything right...?

EDIT: I've just about run out of ideas for the tests that I'm doing. Something is definitely wrong here. Markers and permutations are not exporting. I must have missed something. This is the only cause I can think of that's wrecking the animation or the model, something either isn't linked properly or I've missed something even though I've gone over it 20 times...
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 17, 2018 at 12:07 AM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 17, 2018 07:55 AM    Msg. 6702 of 6707       
Okay so I've never done permutations before (as far as I remember...) so I don't know if that's right.
I've only ever had a single head for my bipeds.
With that said, do YOU know how to do permutations?
Because no offense if it were me I'd figure out how to do things one at a time, like learning how to make modifications to existing bipeds, before I also were trying to figure out how to do permutations.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 17, 2018 12:30 PM    Msg. 6703 of 6707       
Yeah I better slow it down a notch, one problem at a time. I've been trying to find anything on permutations but there are only a few unsolved ancient threads when someone asked about it. I'll stick to the one head for now.

Anyway, so, animations are a no no. He's still stuck in the T-POSE with a floating AR slightly moving as the biped breathes. Oddly, upon export, unlike every other gbx model I still cannot get the markers to export. Unless I have to make them manually in Guerrilla? Since the markers are unchanged from the armoured marine I guess I can use the same coordinates and marker names.

This is just odd. I am trying to find a download of a biped model so I can see how someone else has their working model structured. I need to compare notes so to speak. That is the last thing I can think of before I go smash my head off of a brick wall. This is just odd...

The few tutorials only cover single object bipeds and total customs models with zero rigging and animations needing to be made from scratch, I am shocked how there are no editing existing model tuts out there, how the heck did some people port other marine bipeds yet alone the author of that once CE pack edit his CE marines? Gosh this sucks. I feel like just quitting now...

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 17, 2018 09:25 PM    Msg. 6704 of 6707       
A lot of the skills are transferrable. That's why there's no singular tutorial for every little thing. Learn to infer.
Show me what tool you're exporting with and what settings you've selected on the exporter because if the #markers are linked properly then there should be no reason for them to not export.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 18, 2018 02:57 AM    Msg. 6705 of 6707       
True. I just wanted a little guidance with things, especially with 3DS MAX as there are a few specific MUST-DO things. Anyway, i'll type here the exporter info and I will also be posting a screen cap of it on my Google modding account picture page to make it way easier.

How stupid of me, I should have asked you about this back in my earlier posts, the export settings... Well the image is here: https://plus.google.com/collection/c-pdeE (is this link I keep posting even working? Can you see my screencaps? I should of asked this earlier too...)

Anyway, in text form, the exporter is: JMS Model Exporter v1.0.2 (the bluestreak one from The Ghost and CtrlAltDestroy).

Export Options:
Export Vertex Weights [ticked]
Export Method:
Save to JMS File [ticked]
Stream with MAXScript Listener [un-ticked]

Then I go into Tool and type: tool model characters\newmarine

Then in Guerrilla the gbx model has empty fields unlike its default armoured marine counter parts...


EDIT2: Ok great. Now this is why I begin to get mad and give up. So as you can see, the bones were working just fine. So I went back into 3DS MAX and connected the right parts to the right bones... NOW I GET A DAMN ERROR WITH MY EXPORT WTF!!! Array index must be positive number??? WHAT?! It didn't say this before!?!?! When I have every bone connected to every body part it works fine and gives me my messed up character. When I put only a select few bones on each body part 3DS MAX chucks a hissy fit and throws me that error.

EDIT3: Alright. Forget it, I quit. Sorry for wasting your time, thanks for the help though. I officially give up on trying how to do ANY 3DS MAX related Halo modding. Screw it. Just screw it. There goes days of my life that I can no longer get back. I cannot believe I got as far as getting him into the game but get bombarded by another 500 issues. So after I got him into the game, here were the issues I discovered:
>1- His eyes wont blink
>2- His mouth was stuck slightly open
>3- The body parts had gaps in them somehow
>4- The mesh was slightly deformed on import looking off compared to the in-game marine
>5- His back was stretched
>6- His shoulders were stretched
>7- He wouldn't move, flinch from damage, he could just fall and die
>8- No markers would export
>9- No permutations would export, and if they did they'd all be mashed into one

So yeah, I give up. I don't understand how the Lumoria campaign had a pilot marine model created. If I import a marine model it basically breaks in 3DS MAX. Well its safe to say, this task was impossible and its no wonder why nobody else could have pulled this off over all these years... Might as well get back to scripting my firefight map. Probably shouldn't bother with that either... Might get some unknown errors and non-working scripts even if I follow someone's instructions to the letter... Rant over. What an absolute waste.

If anyone wants the files let me know, otherwise, if a noob like me got this far, well anyone can do it from scratch I guess. You can see the images via that link I posted, so if anyone is bored, there's some inspiration for some more marine variation tags if anybody ever dares to try and pull it off.
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Oct 18, 2018 at 12:49 PM

Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator

Posted: Oct 18, 2018 08:43 PM    Msg. 6706 of 6707       
It's not an impossible task, you just have no idea what you're doing. That's the issue.
The stretching and gaps is because of the rig, you probably have to rerig the biped.
A good test to do is to create a copy max file and use the animation importer to see how your rig is going to interact with the animations you're using.

I've never rigged cinematic bipeds before so I dunno how the eyelid stuff works but everything else is doable if you dig up the right info in tutorials.
And I'm going to have to disagree about the markers. The biped is clearing holding the assault rifle on the right hands, so that's a sign the markers are there.

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

NON-OS Halo 3 Tag Pack Anyone? plz :(

Posted: Oct 19, 2018 05:32 AM    Msg. 6707 of 6707       
Going back to the marker thing now that you can confirm that's not an issue. If you look at the first marker and permutation sections of the armoured marine GBX in Guerrilla, it shows the markers and the base model and any perms. In my GBX all those sections are empty.

No no, its not a cinematic. If you look at the marines in-game their mouths will move when they talk and like any other human, they blink occasionally. My model for some reason has his mouth stuck slightly open, doesn't move and he NEVER blinks. Is this another bone, animation or rigging issue?

I'll get an animation importer, but just to be sure, which one is the one I am SUPPOSED to be using?

I'll go dig for some tutorials but its been difficult hence why we're even commenting here about this little failed project. I loved Yoda's tutorials but as usual, I'm working with a multi-pieced model that was imported from Halo. Everyone uses a single object from a custom biped. I try to apply the methods from them but of course, not all can be applied as although the methods may be similar, the GBX model structures are not...

I'm burnt out man, it was fun but I am kinda upset and very disappointed with the outcome. I don't have the time or skill set to figure out any work-arounds. Maybe one day a pro will beat me to the punch or one day a better set of tools to at least make edits using existing in-game assets will become available. The rigging thing seems so daunting and overwhelming. I mean I'll go ask around. I basically have a fully set, model and textured biped just in need of a rig adjustment. It already has one but it doesn't look like it works... I wish the person who made the Lumoria campaign marine with the pilot helmet could give us an insight on how they managed to edit a vanilla Halo model without it breaking.

ALMOST 2YR later edit: Surely someone knows how to do this. Why are people in this community so secretive?
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Jan 8, 2020 at 10:22 AM

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