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Author Topic: AI Synch Over Multiplayer? (66 messages, Page 1 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 08:23 PM    Msg. 1 of 66       
It's been done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sabz0VckCA

Credit to 017 for this, I just made the vid.
Edited by doompig444 on Apr 5, 2010 at 10:47 PM


OpsY
Joined: Feb 19, 2007

Frobisher Bay


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 08:34 PM    Msg. 2 of 66       
Eager to test that build, but will believe only when I play it!


iizahsum
Joined: Jun 22, 2008

Lacks enthusiasm


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 08:43 PM    Msg. 3 of 66       
It looks like everytime you kill one a dummy replaces it, and why were you being shot when there was clearly nothing but dummys in the room near the end when you died?


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

I hope one day I'm as good as Johnlex2


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 08:43 PM    Msg. 4 of 66       
sex


OMGWTHBBQHAXZORZ XD
Joined: Aug 19, 2008


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 09:06 PM    Msg. 5 of 66       
Wow.
It's pretty regretable that we couldn't have seen this happen a few years back as now more people are leaving halo ce and moving on. Through all the years of effort an now this... I don't know what to say.


Corvette19
Joined: Feb 27, 2007


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 09:18 PM    Msg. 6 of 66       
That looks amazing.
I wonder how it works.


vmt
Joined: Jan 29, 2008


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 09:24 PM    Msg. 7 of 66       
Nice job :D


WWLinkMasterX
Joined: Mar 29, 2009

"This forum is a psychiatrist's wet dream..."


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 09:28 PM    Msg. 8 of 66       
I came...

So does this mean we can have functioning psudoe campign co-op within the next year?


OpsY
Joined: Feb 19, 2007

Frobisher Bay


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 10:05 PM    Msg. 9 of 66       
Don't wanna freak anyone out but Me_Ks and I gave it a little try and the result was just plain old un syncing AI... we used scripts however to moderate their respawns and there's a chance that influenced it.


Me KS
Joined: Feb 2, 2008

Desire is Reality. Xfire: jetmaster23


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 10:16 PM    Msg. 10 of 66       
Well, I have a more sure answer.

They're not syncing.

It's best that people know the truth so that nobody gets the wrong idea. I'm really not trying to criticize your efforts or anything, just saying the truth. To be honest I was convinced the idea might work until we tested it. But anyways here it is:

The AI that you see running around are nothing but the completely independent client-side AI that spawn when you join the game, just like in any other AI map. They aren't synced to the server-side AI.

These AI are just like scenery: because they don't sync at all, you can spawn them all you want on client-side and they will function perfectly-only they don't exist at all on server-side. Same goes for server-side, except they do exist as the 'dummy' bipeds on client side, but nothing more.

And we're sure about this (or at least I am xD) Here's what we tried:

-Killed all AI on server side - AI on client side did not die as they should have if they were syncing
-Killed all AI on client side - AI on client side shouldn't have died if they were synced to server AI.
-Because of this, we were able to have different number of AI on server and client which shouldn't happen
-We saw AI in different positions
-I killed all my client side AI while server side AI still existed - I was getting shot by nothing as the client
-The server would warp me right through an AI standing still, indicating it wasn't there on server-side - further proof for different positions
-Client side AI would be shooting at me and not hurting me at all
-etc.

And when I say 'AI' I mean the functioning AI running around and shooting, not the dummy bipeds. We also turned off respawn whenever we killed them to make sure there were none at all.


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 10:50 PM    Msg. 11 of 66       
And how did you achieve your AI sync? It's all in the method.

I am pretty sure his were synching, because I could see him killing stuff and vice versa.


delta49
Joined: Jan 23, 2007

I don't always make shaders..


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 11:07 PM    Msg. 12 of 66       
I really believe that it was just coincidence, considering it is a small map. The AI could've been somewhere else on his screen, and he shot killed it, but on your screen it was somewhere else, yet still in the path of bullets, which made it die on your screen and seem like it was syncing.


Me KS
Joined: Feb 2, 2008

Desire is Reality. Xfire: jetmaster23


Posted: Apr 5, 2010 11:08 PM    Msg. 13 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
And how did you achieve your AI sync? It's all in the method.


I didn't, nor am I trying. Nothing but a change in the Halo engine can make AI sync. Also your 'method' is way too simple. I know what you changed. In theory, a very possibly idea, and again I thought it had potential since I never heard it before. But unfortunately it doesn't work.

Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
I am pretty sure his were synching, because I could see him killing stuff and vice versa.


And I'm not pretty sure, I know they don't sync. I used to mess with AI a long time ago with 2 computers hooked up through a LAN to see how AI worked out in the netcode, so I know what to look for. I didn't see anything different when I tested it here. Same, unsyncing AI.

If you really aren't convinced, I will post 2 screenshots, one from each computer (server and client) from the exact same viewpoint at the same time.

I know you don't accept that they don't sync, and trust me I would hate me right now if I thought I was on the brink of an epic achievement and someone was shooting me down, so I can understand that. But I would be letting you lie if I didn't try to prove otherwise, and misinformation isn't good for anybody.


Co1t3r
Joined: Dec 13, 2008

I'm so awesome right now!


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 12:11 AM    Msg. 14 of 66       
This would be impressive if the AI didn't act like idiots. Also, as ME_KS explained, they're not really syncing (not "synching"), they are just running some sort of prerecorded instructions.


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 01:01 AM    Msg. 15 of 66       
They aren't, I'm pretty sure they're random.

Tested again with 017, he sightjacked me while I played normally, it seemed to be working, but with glitches and lag.


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 01:43 AM    Msg. 16 of 66       
Well. when you make halo do this stuff there has to be some kind of repercussions. Maybe it will lag, but then the next thing someone will find out is how to not make it lag then pretty soon halo 3 comes to PC with a full editing kit and ppl say "well, were done here I guess".


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

Fear it for it is real


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 01:51 AM    Msg. 17 of 66       
There is no code in the Halo Custom Edition game to transfer or transmit the status or position of the AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network. There is no code within the game to handle any of that data were it to be transmitted. In a standard install of the Halo Custom Edition Game you can not sync AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network and there is no scripting you can do to completely script them.


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 02:19 AM    Msg. 18 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
There is no code in the Halo Custom Edition game to transfer or transmit the status or position of the AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network. There is no code within the game to handle any of that data were it to be transmitted. In a standard install of the Halo Custom Edition Game you can not sync AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network and there is no scripting you can do to completely script them.


heehee, thats true, you can't sync THOSE 3 types. *hint hint*


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 02:20 AM    Msg. 19 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix
not really.
I've played Halo 2 and tbh I can't get used to the controls. There's just this certain... stiffness to it. quite a few people truthfully point out that I can barely hit anything with a BR. yet I'm fine with 3-hitting ppl with a pistol in H1. And no it's not mouse sensivity. The framerate is uneven, so the game feels like it's "lurching".

and do you really think they're gonna realise a full editting kit with Halo 3?
They're never make any more money out of ODST and Reach, with the possible exception of some ppl wanting reach's 3d radar...
oh, and maybe jetpacks, but we would prolly be able to recreate those.

they're gonna release a really limited kit, like the H2 one, and that's if H3 ever does come to PC at all.


TBQH, I don't think they will. People will be going crazy over Crysis 2 anyway so what will be the point?


OpsY
Joined: Feb 19, 2007

Frobisher Bay


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 11:55 AM    Msg. 20 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
There is no code in the Halo Custom Edition game to transfer or transmit the status or position of the AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network. There is no code within the game to handle any of that data were it to be transmitted. In a standard install of the Halo Custom Edition Game you can not sync AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network and there is no scripting you can do to completely script them.


heehee, thats true, you can't sync THOSE 3 types. *hint hint*



Hint Hint ain't changing the fact our tests proved totally negative, just same old Client / Server different AI


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

Fear it for it is real


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 03:35 PM    Msg. 21 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
There is no code in the Halo Custom Edition game to transfer or transmit the status or position of the AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network. There is no code within the game to handle any of that data were it to be transmitted. In a standard install of the Halo Custom Edition Game you can not sync AI, Device Machines or Animated scenery across the network and there is no scripting you can do to completely script them.


heehee, thats true, you can't sync THOSE 3 types. *hint hint*
You are chasing a pipe dream, perpetuating a fraud and ignoring the facts. You can't endow AI characteristics to objects that do sync and you canít sync AI across the network. The game was not written or designed to do so. There is nothing to hint at here you might as well just join the flat earth society than proclaim you can sync AI in Halo CE.


Me KS
Joined: Feb 2, 2008

Desire is Reality. Xfire: jetmaster23


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 07:22 PM    Msg. 22 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
They aren't, I'm pretty sure they're random.

Tested again with 017, he sightjacked me while I played normally, it seemed to be working, but with glitches and lag.


Your 'tests' aren't good enough. You're just playing the game and assuming that they sync. Well, I did the real testing needed.

As promised, 2 screenshots from the same viewpoint at the same time, one from the server and one from the client. I did nothing at all to the AI in the game on either end before taking these screenshots.

Server:



Client:



Mysterion
Joined: Aug 9, 2008

Nice shot, but too bad your @$$ just got SACKED!!!


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 08:24 PM    Msg. 23 of 66       
Proof is in the Puddin...


OpsY
Joined: Feb 19, 2007

Frobisher Bay


Posted: Apr 6, 2010 09:00 PM    Msg. 24 of 66       
And none is even remotely close


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 12:03 AM    Msg. 25 of 66       
Those extra non-moving bipeds shown on the client are dummy bipeds. The other one running around in the back is definitely unsynced. However, two of them seem to be almost exact, from what I can tell. At least, standing the the right place.

017 already has fixes in mind for getting rid of the dummy bipeds, and that may help rid the server-client unsynced issues.

For the record, when we test it, its always on his dedicated server, so neither of us are host, we're both clients.

I choose to stand by 017 on his project, perhaps out of false hope, but then so be it. You all probably think I'm some n00b for thinking this will actually work, and I probably am, but still.


ThePlague
Joined: Dec 16, 2007

Xfire: church897


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 12:13 AM    Msg. 26 of 66       
It's. Literally. Impossible. With. This. Engine.


Co1t3r
Joined: Dec 13, 2008

I'm so awesome right now!


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 01:45 AM    Msg. 27 of 66       
So how, supposedly, is it syncing? Or is it too 'big of a secret' to tell?


anoldman
Joined: Mar 29, 2010


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 08:14 AM    Msg. 28 of 66       
I think people will find some sort of a loophole and make it sync someday. Nothing is impossible...right?


DarkHalo003
Joined: Mar 10, 2008

All ARs Need Green Little Buttons.


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 09:01 AM    Msg. 29 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
I think people will find some sort of a loophole and make it sync someday. Nothing is impossible...right?

I'm sure there is a way to make it sync somewhat, but it would never really be as accurate as Halo3's in any ways possible.


Bokito
Joined: Oct 31, 2007

Playing ODST since 09-21-09


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 09:24 AM    Msg. 30 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
Nothing is impossible...right?

Yes, some things are impossible.


Smmt
Joined: Jan 22, 2009


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 01:33 PM    Msg. 31 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Bokito
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
Nothing is impossible...right?

Yes, some things are impossible.

Try slamming a revolving door....


Advancebo
Joined: Jan 14, 2008


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 01:43 PM    Msg. 32 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Bokito
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
Nothing is impossible...right?

Yes, some things are impossible.

Its possible, if you could modify the source.


Mysterion
Joined: Aug 9, 2008

Nice shot, but too bad your @$$ just got SACKED!!!


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 02:55 PM    Msg. 33 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Smmt
Quote: --- Original message by: Bokito
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
Nothing is impossible...right?

Yes, some things are impossible.

Try slamming a revolving door....


Stick a 2x4 across the door frame!


wesman
Joined: Mar 18, 2008

no your a freezer


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 03:03 PM    Msg. 34 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Smmt
Quote: --- Original message by: Bokito
Quote: --- Original message by: anoldman
Nothing is impossible...right?

Yes, some things are impossible.

Try slamming a revolving door....

I think this guy did it.


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

Fear it for it is real


Posted: Apr 7, 2010 03:37 PM    Msg. 35 of 66       
Almost anything is possible without real world restrains. Note I say "Almost" even when real world restraints are removed. However there are some very limiting real world restraints in this case and that is the base code of the game which is proprietary and canít be changed. Given the very severe restriction on what can be done to the game, since the source will most likely never be released, it is in all practicality impossible that anyone would be able to make AI sync in a multiplayer game using the existing code base: It was just not designed to do it. Even if, and I seriously doubt it will ever happen, the source code was available the amount of re-writing that would be needed is herculean because you would have to change the network protocols and the core logic of the game structure to make AI sync. Not only that, but everyone would have to upgrade to the new code so it would be a different game and not Halo Custom Edition.

Effectively it will never happen. It is one thing to have hope, but false hope in spite of the facts is pretty close to lunacy.

 
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