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Author Topic: Touch on Realism (66 messages, Page 1 of 2)
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KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 10:39 AM    Msg. 1 of 66       
Cody and I have been working together for almost 4 years now, and we believe the realistic in video games is as possible as any other aspect in a game. Whether this be physics, motion, textures, or partical divisions.

Well, thus I begin the first of many with this comparison to the possibilities of low-poly realism:

Here is my pickup I am rebuilding:


Here is the modeled division of how it would look ingame:

Edited by KillerKip1 on Aug 14, 2010 at 10:40 AM


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 11:38 AM    Msg. 2 of 66       
4 years?

You've got to be kidding, right? It took you that long to think you can make something 'realistic' in Halo?

Please, just stop. Video games should not be reality simulators, and trying on Halo 1 is a stupid idea.

Video games are about having fun and the aesthetics.

Aesthetic>Realism


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 11:50 AM    Msg. 3 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
4 years?

You've got to be kidding, right? It took you that long to think you can make something 'realistic' in Halo?

Please, just stop. Video games should not be reality simulators, and trying on Halo 1 is a stupid idea.

Video games are about having fun and the aesthetics.

Aesthetic>Realism


Whats wrong with making it realistic? With the 2,000 some maps for this game, you are complaining about more free content?

That model is under 2,000 polygons
Edited by KillerKip1 on Aug 14, 2010 at 11:55 AM


Geared
Joined: Mar 6, 2009

EPI Creator


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 12:38 PM    Msg. 4 of 66       
kip nice, but this long to be realistic lol....and odx yes they arent meant to be sims, but waht about the combat,flight,and driving sims out there? like OF,AA,ArmA,and who knows what else. every persons opinon of what is fun is difrerent for me its extremely difficult simulations. like operation flashpoint dragon rising. i like the chalange. i ahve other games for fun(like halo1 and ut99,mw2 just so i can get called a hacker cause ppl are stupid enough to run out in the open). but ncie truck kip. maybe i can make mroe stuff for u guys cause im finally done with college.


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 01:25 PM    Msg. 5 of 66       
Halo isn't the best idea for doing realistic but it is acceptable. However ODX, Realism is really freaking sweet in games IMO. take this example. Game + realism = Crysis.
Also, look at sports games. Did you know that they actually show SWEAT dripping of people. Unnecessary for the gameplay but they do it anyway.
If he wants to do realism in under 2000 polies, great for him, though Kip, I recommend that any map this goes in, it actually fits in. Realism in an unrealistic map looks awkward.


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 01:42 PM    Msg. 6 of 66       
We get it. You like Crysis. However, Crysis is hardly a realistic game. What's with shooting enemies multiple times before they die, or cyborgs who have balls drop into conveniently placed holes to give them super strength? Not to say that Crysis isn't a good game, just that it isn't a fully realistic game as your "equation" specified.


DEEhunter
Joined: Dec 16, 2006


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 01:53 PM    Msg. 7 of 66       
Crysis is not realistic. No matter how hard they tried, it is so unrealistic. Nearly everything is procedural providing nearly no true artistic control over the environment.

We want something new.
New architecture, new styles, new agriculture, new kind of animals, new themes.
We get enough realism through out our lives.
Show us something new.
Halo provided this with covenant architecture, forerunner, unsc, the morality of the extraterrestrials. The choices of those who precursor our supposition existence. And the existence of the forerunner structures.

All of this along with a sense of functionality which allows them to build off of the common idea of realism. Such as hover vehicles, we know it may be possible, but halo provides one of those concepts in which plasma/anti-grav particles/etc are used to do the impossible/improbable.

This why sci-fi is interesting. It provides a "proof of concept" to modern day theories of technology and uses them to enhance the effect of the aesthetics.


Something new.
Edited by DEEhunter on Aug 14, 2010 at 01:58 PM


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 02:22 PM    Msg. 8 of 66       
@ Gamma. loltrue

@DEE
Lets see, for a game, the buildings are so overly realistic it is ridiculous, every vehicle is overly realistic, every person is overly realistic, don't get me started on the scenery, watch a video and anyone can see what I mean.
Animals, hmm, let me think, sharks, crabs, frogs, chickens, turtles, fish in the water. And all fully killable, throwable and able to be USED AS A MELEE WEAPON if you wish.
Oh yes, crazy environmental affects, water that looks real even at the bottom of a gulf or a stream or pond really cool TOD changes,
Oh and about new architecture, I take it you haven't played the game or something. There is a whole long area of alien architecture that is so awesome it blows the freaking mind. Also, the aliens are so weird looking the only thing I can think of even comparing them to is maybe a ghost or something. Plus the robots have really awesome AI. All of a sudden you turn arount and one has tentacles fully spread and is launching into your face to melee you.
Oh yes and did I mention that everything that makes sense to be intractable with is intractable? Putting on strength and being able to kill someone with a box, a table, the barrel you just blew off that tank, the chicken you just grabbed that is still looking around while it is in your hands, or the person you just picked up and strangled in your left hand is so awesome.
Artistic. Did when you come out of the alien facility and see the frozen peopl'e positions, the earthquake torn landscape and the wreckage caused by both, You just can't get any better than that. And no game, unless they try and copy some of crysis aspects, ever will in the recent future.
The ONLY thing you have a point on, is the nanosuit functions. I will grant you they are quite overly exaggerated. Those "balls" you called them, are what's known as adrenaline if I'm not mistaken. but yes you are right, even with adrenaline, you will never run that fast or jump that high without some kind of machinery and not a nanosuit aiding you.

Sorry if I sound like a Crysis fanboy here but, other than maybe the new COD games, show me a game that is this realistic AT LEAST in terms of


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 02:28 PM    Msg. 9 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
4 years?

You've got to be kidding, right? It took you that long to think you can make something 'realistic' in Halo?

Please, just stop. Video games should not be reality simulators, and trying on Halo 1 is a stupid idea.

Video games are about having fun and the aesthetics.

Aesthetic>Realism


Opinions are cool dude but Flaming is not take your fire to another forest. This is what im always talking about people alwyas flame stuff before they even get a chance to play it. Let them do what ever the hell they want. is it seriosly that hard? We live in a free country and i think he deserves the right to put what ever he wants in halo. If you don't like it guess what? DON'T DOWNLAOD IT! wow that was easy. really easy. I mean come on just because some one makes something dosnt mean you have to use it. If they made womens underwear for men would you use it? I'm Just saying...


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 02:40 PM    Msg. 10 of 66       
I never said he doesn't have the right to be putting it into Halo, what's annoying is his complete incompetence and posting behavior.

Everything he says is complete bull all the time, and I'm sick of it. Really, what is this '4 years' crap he's talking about? Why does he sound like he's trying to be our best hope of making something good for CE?


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 02:42 PM    Msg. 11 of 66       
I have fully read all posts and deduced my own opinion.
Take it to another game.
If you want REALISM, like say you step on a can in call of duty, and it crushes.
Or can stumble if you run too fast\long, well you can't sorry. You cannot replicate these or any other examples in Halo Custom Edition.
You want to make a realistic map in Halo? That in itself is not realistic.
Of course you are always welcome to make anything you wish, but you will not succeed in making a truly realistic game.

Now if you are talking about aesthetic realism, go finish that truck (model and real truck) and model that barn, get them in-game, and make a really cool farm map complete with drivable farm animals. (Yes it can be done.)
Edited by jesse on Aug 14, 2010 at 02:43 PM


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 02:52 PM    Msg. 12 of 66       
I think that is what kip is saying Jesse. No one can help this poor game engine. :(


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 03:14 PM    Msg. 13 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX




Please, just stop.





Yes i do belive you were telling him to stop


Megaguirus
Joined: Feb 26, 2009

Om nom nom


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 03:15 PM    Msg. 14 of 66       
Barn looks like it has been shot at 0_o


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 03:47 PM    Msg. 15 of 66       
lol. Looks like a normal barn to me, but hey. I live in Michigan. We got farms and we got Flint and Detroit. 2 of the top 10 most dangerous cities. So I'm used to seeing houses and other things with bullet holes in them.

It does look like it has a lot of knots in the wood though.


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 03:55 PM    Msg. 16 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Slayer117
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Please, just stop.

Yes i do belive you were telling him to stop
I'm telling him to stop making posts where he seems to be as though he's acting like some kind of 'savior' to CE or his ideas are 'brilliant' and everyone should pay attention and give him praise.

So far, none of his works have been impressive, or even gotten released.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 04:05 PM    Msg. 17 of 66       
Um.... where did he mention at any point he was saving CE? All he said was "Hey, what if we tried to make realistic things while using fewer polys?" He doesn't come off nearly as arrogant as you, who feels that everyone needs to pay attention to your post, because it is written in large font.

You seem to hop from thread to thread telling people that their ideas are crap. Did someone not love you enough as a child?

Edited by Echo77 on Aug 14, 2010 at 04:10 PM


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 04:08 PM    Msg. 18 of 66       
If you'd been here for 3+ years like I have, you'd know the kind of annoyances this guy has caused over that time >_>


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 04:24 PM    Msg. 19 of 66       
and if youve been around as long as I've have you would notice ODX loves to use caps and flame people for their ideas cause he has nothing else better to do in this forum.


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 04:38 PM    Msg. 20 of 66       
Wait, I thought Kip released a ton of civi vehicles a while ago.


UnevenElefant5
Joined: May 3, 2008

she/her this fag bashes back


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 04:55 PM    Msg. 21 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: DEEhunter
We want something new.
New architecture, new styles, new agriculture, new kind of animals, new themes.
We get enough realism through out our lives.
Show us something new.
Halo provided this with covenant architecture, forerunner, unsc, the morality of the extraterrestrials. The choices of those who precursor our supposition existence. And the existence of the forerunner structures.

Seriously this, I cannot stress this enough. The reason I play video games so much is because I like to get away from everyday life, the last thing I want to do is have everyday life invade my games. I don't mind games like CoD, because while it's set in the real world, the circumstances of the game aren't realistic and is fun to play. I don't want a game where I control a character who is so realistic that he gets winded from running a few yards, can jump only 2 feet in the air, is crippled with one punch in the nose, and killed with one bullet from a handgun. I want to play a game where I can sprint across walls and perform devastating melee attacks, use super powerful guns that never gun out of ammunition, have an awesome suit of armor that blocks attacks, fly spaceships, kill aliens, so yea. I'm all for graphical "realism" (like crysis, how the trees block the sun and you get those "god rays" and the awesome water they have) but I want it applied to a non realistic game, so I can have those realistic effects while I blast apart aliens with laser guns on a far away planet.


K_I_D
Joined: Nov 27, 2008

If you are cool, this will be your avatar quote.


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 05:04 PM    Msg. 22 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Quote: --- Original message by: Slayer117
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Please, just stop.

Yes i do belive you were telling him to stop
I'm telling him to stop making posts where he seems to be as though he's acting like some kind of 'savior' to CE or his ideas are 'brilliant' and everyone should pay attention and give him praise.

So far, none of his works have been impressive, or even gotten released.


Where does he act like a savior in this thread?


DEEhunter
Joined: Dec 16, 2006


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 05:31 PM    Msg. 23 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: eliteslasher
@ Gamma. loltrue

@DEE
Lets see, for a game, the buildings are so overly realistic it is ridiculous, every vehicle is overly realistic, every person is overly realistic, don't get me started on the scenery, watch a video and anyone can see what I mean.
Animals, hmm, let me think, sharks, crabs, frogs, chickens, turtles, fish in the water. And all fully killable, throwable and able to be USED AS A MELEE WEAPON if you wish.
Oh yes, crazy environmental affects, water that looks real even at the bottom of a gulf or a stream or pond really cool TOD changes,
Oh and about new architecture, I take it you haven't played the game or something. There is a whole long area of alien architecture that is so awesome it blows the freaking mind. Also, the aliens are so weird looking the only thing I can think of even comparing them to is maybe a ghost or something. Plus the robots have really awesome AI. All of a sudden you turn arount and one has tentacles fully spread and is launching into your face to melee you.
Oh yes and did I mention that everything that makes sense to be intractable with is intractable? Putting on strength and being able to kill someone with a box, a table, the barrel you just blew off that tank, the chicken you just grabbed that is still looking around while it is in your hands, or the person you just picked up and strangled in your left hand is so awesome.
Artistic. Did when you come out of the alien facility and see the frozen peopl'e positions, the earthquake torn landscape and the wreckage caused by both, You just can't get any better than that. And no game, unless they try and copy some of crysis aspects, ever will in the recent future.
The ONLY thing you have a point on, is the nanosuit functions. I will grant you they are quite overly exaggerated. Those "balls" you called them, are what's known as adrenaline if I'm not mistaken. but yes you are right, even with adrenaline, you will never run that fast or jump that high without some kind of machinery and not a nanosuit aiding you.

Sorry if I sound like a Crysis fanboy here but, other than maybe the new COD games, show me a game that is this realistic AT LEAST in terms of

Read the first paragraph, and I already know what the rest of this is.

What you said there is an invalid opinion good sir. Because simulating what happens in real life takes absolutely no creative effort. Which is one of the reasons why games like COD do not interest me.
Crysis is literally one of those "look what I can do" games. Everything is in the looks, but the "practical" use of it is just pitiful. The architecture they attempt to use is basically the "less effort means we can make more of it!" approuch. Random abstract shapes and having nearly every moving organism have either a humanoid appearence, or some fluid-moving octo-pod in which nearly every one of the 4 variations shoot the same thing, and do the same thing. It is literally a rock paper scissors game. If you see X, then use Y. If X has Y, then use Z.

And the entire augmented suit thing has been done before, there attempt at adding "logic" for us to build off of, is that it shoots spheres into your pores and into your blood stream to enable movements and such, or that the armor hardens to defect bullets.
Crysis is a boring game when attempting to do something new because it gives us nothing logical to build off of. No encounters really have a central goal in mind through out the game. They literally just threw your player, and a bunch of bad guys, in a very REALISTIC looking box to see what happens.


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 05:47 PM    Msg. 24 of 66       
Where's my alien hillbilly, dangnammit?


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 05:52 PM    Msg. 25 of 66       
I understood what you are going for here What you are describing for your gameplay simply no one wants to make. You are describing more of just a real life simulators and for the general public, real life simulators just don't sell.
This is a game. A FPS game. What other practical uses are there in a FPS game. In real war games, it is quite similar. See enemy, shoot enemy. Enemy got armor, use RL or grenades. Enemy susceptible to EMP, use emp gun. Enemy sucks, use a crapy gun cuz you don't want to waste the bullets. everything in life is also your if/then (if x then y) situations like the game.
As far as variations, yes maybe more variations would be good, but unless we start using blu ray discs for games to hold the hundreds of options and different variances you want, it is just not practical. And like I said, it may be cool to get more realism in game where you can't always expect something to happen, it just isn't worth it. The reason we are on this forum is that we like to think about this kind of stuff. A lot of the rest of the world who doesn't partake in such things is a little more unlike that. As I said before, it just won't sell. Simplicity sells and it always will sell. The only thing people want is for it to look better when it does sell.


Geared
Joined: Mar 6, 2009

EPI Creator


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 06:28 PM    Msg. 26 of 66       
ill end this discussion ...


neither of u are correct, cause neither of u have pancake mix in there....so stop with the lies and slander and move on.


DEEhunter
Joined: Dec 16, 2006


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 06:32 PM    Msg. 27 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: eliteslasher
I understood what you are going for here What you are describing for your gameplay simply no one wants to make. You are describing more of just a real life simulators and for the general public, real life simulators just don't sell.
This is a game. A FPS game. What other practical uses are there in a FPS game. In real war games, it is quite similar. See enemy, shoot enemy. Enemy got armor, use RL or grenades. Enemy susceptible to EMP, use emp gun. Enemy sucks, use a crapy gun cuz you don't want to waste the bullets. everything in life is also your if/then (if x then y) situations like the game.
As far as variations, yes maybe more variations would be good, but unless we start using blu ray discs for games to hold the hundreds of options and different variances you want, it is just not practical. And like I said, it may be cool to get more realism in game where you can't always expect something to happen, it just isn't worth it. The reason we are on this forum is that we like to think about this kind of stuff. A lot of the rest of the world who doesn't partake in such things is a little more unlike that. As I said before, it just won't sell. Simplicity sells and it always will sell. The only thing people want is for it to look better when it does sell.

Same as last time, read the first few sentences and inferred what you said for the rest.
You have a horrible insight on life and your standard on originality is just plain dumb. You are the people they intend to impress, because you and probably all the other hipsters, only care about looks. When I described the game-play, that is exactly what crysis is. I was not suggesting the "ideal game" when I was talking about game play.

Get out.


ThetianSoldier
Joined: May 15, 2010

Keyboard not found! Press any key to continue...


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 06:40 PM    Msg. 28 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: eliteslasher
I think that is what kip is saying Jesse. No one can help this poor game engine. :(

Piss off.
Just because Halo CE can't make a few realistic effects doesn't mean it's a poor game engine.
What DEE said.
Get out.


Joshflighter
Joined: May 23, 2009

Former CMT Team Co-Leader


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 07:11 PM    Msg. 29 of 66       
Points are out, no need to start black eyeing other people.

Kip, I understand you want to try something new, and mb to you its awesome. But before you do this, please have more things to show. (MB some ingame stuff?) so that there arent arguements about it being possible, but instead arguements about your work being true to your goal or not.

=)


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 08:59 PM    Msg. 30 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ThetianSoldier
Quote: --- Original message by: eliteslasher
I think that is what kip is saying Jesse. No one can help this poor game engine. :(

Piss off.
Just because Halo CE can't make a few realistic effects doesn't mean it's a poor game engine.
What DEE said.
Get out.


Jesus tap dancing Christ dude! That was a joke! You obviously read none of my posts or you would have realized we were talking about in comparison to new age engines. Jesus I wasn't really flaming Halo's engine, If I want to flame an engine that is 10 years old or more I can do that to the original Doom engine but no one does that because of a littel thing called PROGRESS. God, did you put a whole two seconds of thought into your post.

You know, I just realized, this isn't even a discussion on changing the game engine so I don't know why we are arguing about what makes a petter game engine. It is about getting real world content into CE. That doesn't neccessarily mean changing CE's nature, it means making some real looking stuff and if the physics, or the perms, or anything else can't be helped, so what!

BTW, DEE I meant no disrespect to you, I was just trying to state my case. I know a lot of people believe what you are talking about, but I just was trying to say that what you are talking about would , at least for now, bbe way ahead of it's time. I accept that what you are saying would be awesome, but no one has done that kind of a game yet to my knowledge. I didn't want this to turn into this kind of argument. Dennis locks these kind of arguments anyway.


AlwinRoth
Joined: Jan 4, 2008


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 09:05 PM    Msg. 31 of 66       
I'm not much of a "Realism" guy on my video games.

However, it would be nice to have a video game with realistic characteristics.

I mean, in real life, it's not like you can run around and shoot people/objects and not get in trouble for it? That's where video-simulators kick in. (A.k.a. Video Games)


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 09:25 PM    Msg. 32 of 66       
I agree with you there and I also agree with DEE on a few things especially the part about more enemy perms and types and more random encounters. it does get too easy when you come up to something expecting it.


DEEhunter
Joined: Dec 16, 2006


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 10:22 PM    Msg. 33 of 66       
Why is he acting like I am trying to suggest an ideal game. I am stating what Crysis is compared to other creative games...


Donut
Joined: Sep 30, 2006

I swear I'm not actually dead


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 10:36 PM    Msg. 34 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
If you'd been here for 3+ years like I have, you'd know the kind of annoyances this guy has caused over that time >_>

this^. dont get me wrong, i like kip. he and i talk on xfire every now and then about stuff. i only say this just to make it clear that there isnt a negative bias here. the irritating thing kip likes to do is believe his conceptual ideas can automatically translate into reality when they cant. for example, placing 20 spot lights on an object in max and expecting the object to retain those light casting properties when put in halo. it just doesnt work that way.

like i said, i like kip, and i like his enthusiasm, but sometimes you have to know when you cant go any further.

also crysis was neither a realistic nor a good game. oh boy, highres textures, lighting, and physics that most computers cant even run.
E: anybody else remember the 90's when games were cool and people played them for fun? that was when people still understood that the main concept behind a game is fun before realism.
Edited by Donut on Aug 14, 2010 at 10:41 PM


eliteslasher
Joined: Jun 30, 2008

Crysis 3!!!!!!! All I have to say. :D


Posted: Aug 14, 2010 10:45 PM    Msg. 35 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Donut

Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
If you'd been here for 3+ years like I have, you'd know the kind of annoyances this guy has caused over that time >_>

this^. dont get me wrong, i like kip. he and i talk on xfire every now and then about stuff. i only say this just to make it clear that there isnt a negative bias here. the irritating thing kip likes to do is believe his conceptual ideas can automatically translate into reality when they cant. for example, placing 20 spot lights on an object in max and expecting the object to retain those light casting properties when put in halo. it just doesnt work that way.

like i said, i like kip, and i like his enthusiasm, but sometimes you have to know when you cant go any further.

also crysis was neither a realistic nor a good game. oh boy, highres textures, lighting, and physics that most computers cant even run.
E: anybody else remember the 90's when games were cool and people played them for fun? that was when people still understood that the main concept behind a game is fun before realism.
Edited by Donut on Aug 14, 2010 at 10:41 PM


Hell Yeah! Mario FTW!

 
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