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Author Topic: RipCord Construction (92 messages, Page 1 of 3)
Moderators: Dennis

KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 15, 2010 09:10 PM    Msg. 1 of 92       
Well, back again with RipCord!

I got an image a few minutes ago when an error popped up, I save these so I can study what the error says and determine on how to fix it later on.

Here is the latest one I guess.



RipCord is not ingame yet, been busy rewritting NPcode (Formerly NP-Code), so it can handle more.

This Error right here, I cannot even read, so I wont try to even explain it, its very random, and I need to undo everything to find out what I did wrong.


EDIT:
I got it working for broadcasting, tried a LAN setup with my desktop, not ingame, but the software can communicate with one another now!


Edited by KillerKip1 on Aug 15, 2010 at 09:40 PM


UnevenElefant5
Joined: May 3, 2008

she/her this fag bashes back


Posted: Aug 15, 2010 09:56 PM    Msg. 2 of 92       
What's RipCord?
o.O


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 15, 2010 09:56 PM    Msg. 3 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: UnevenElefant5
What's RipCord?
o.O


http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=31482


Advancebo
Joined: Jan 14, 2008


Posted: Aug 15, 2010 10:03 PM    Msg. 4 of 92       
ripcord has a buddy list?


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:08 AM    Msg. 5 of 92       
Let me recap:

RipCord can be used, when finished, to syncronize Bots ingame between 2 different computers


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:13 AM    Msg. 6 of 92       
no more then 2 or just 2?


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:25 AM    Msg. 7 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Slayer117
no more then 2 or just 2?


All I have tested so far, but theoretically, it should have a very high limit, so I can safely say around 20 players without bad lag problems, any more would create issues. Just too much information sent back and forth.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:30 AM    Msg. 8 of 92       
so can we have coop in the campaign?


Skyancez3o4
Joined: Apr 6, 2010

I miss CE


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:42 AM    Msg. 9 of 92       
Quote: so can we have coop in the campaign?

Pretty much. Let's just hope this gets released soon so we could enjoy AI maps together :D


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:45 AM    Msg. 10 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: darkassassin14
so can we have coop in the campaign?


Yeah, if the map is setup for it.

Essencially, you have everyone playing the game use this software, you are all supposed to open RipCord, while one of the players (host) has the game open you open the server list, the server list is pulled from the game, and you select the game with the other person having RipCord, it will fire up Halo Custom Edition and enter the game.

NOTE: no customized HUD, too much unneeded work will get in the way, its like putting ducktape over ducktape.


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 01:02 AM    Msg. 11 of 92       
I'll have to see this in Action before I download it, so how far would you say its done? is it past Alpha stage?


Geared
Joined: Mar 6, 2009

EPI Creator


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 01:27 AM    Msg. 12 of 92       
[waits for dennis to say its impossible for ai to sync]
[waits for dennis to be proved wrong]
[waits for it to be done so we can do some crazy 16 player vs ai super firefight shiz]


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 02:49 AM    Msg. 13 of 92       
Area 54 with syncing ai? that would be so epic! We could finally Kill Eric!


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 03:41 AM    Msg. 14 of 92       


If what you say is true and you're not a troll, this should work. I don't think even Dennis could argue with what your program claims to do: send all AI data separately through a 3rd party program.

Awaiting updates.


Hydrogen
Joined: Dec 6, 2009

Wort Wort Wort...


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 04:07 AM    Msg. 15 of 92       
:P dennis is gonna say something then get owned then lock the thread and everyone will think lol... the same as always.. unlike the opensauce argument thats been going on lately


abkarch
Joined: Mar 20, 2010


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 07:44 AM    Msg. 16 of 92       
off topic:
i hear it everywhere, what the hell is opensauce????

on topic:
this would probably actually work, i hope it does!


stennett
Joined: Dec 4, 2008


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 08:07 AM    Msg. 17 of 92       
Dennis never said it was impossible with the use of third party programs. In fact i believe he said it was at some point.


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 09:56 AM    Msg. 18 of 92       
You guys are so easily convinced. After all these years, you entrust a single 3rd party program to sync AI? Pardon me if you will, but I'm extremely skeptical about this. Considering the only progress shown, no offense, was two computers connecting to one another, this hardly sways my opinion of whether it will work or not.


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 10:31 AM    Msg. 19 of 92       
Gamma, out of everyone, your the one to go against this software?

What you see in those images is as far as I am.

Its enough proof because those 2 links are sent through a LAN game setup on the desktop, to my laptop and back, making a looped connection for data to be sent.

The data sent allows the game to determine where the Bots should be located.

And since I could not do this WITH the HCE game, I decided to just go third party with it.


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 10:45 AM    Msg. 20 of 92       
Well, excuse me for not believing in something until I have proof. Just because a network connection can be established between two apps doesn't necessarily mean that AI syncing will commence, as many of the easily swayed idiots in this thread think. I have yet to see you link the transferred data to HCE, nor a great deal of many things.

AI syncing isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Yes, bot location is important, which, if we believe your app's capabilities, will sync bot locations. However, you still must account for AI behaviors. Just because the location of AI sync does not mean that their behaviors will sync, as AI actions still occur only on the host computer. You'd have to transfer everything regarding the AI, the position they're looking at, their firing, etc. Unless of course, your objective was not to create perfectly synced AI, rather just their positions.

My posts weren't intended to flame, nor were they intended to annoy you to the point to stop working on this app. My intent was to provide my reason for my extreme skepticism, and I would be rather glad to be proven wrong.
Edited by Gamma927 on Aug 16, 2010 at 10:47 AM


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:08 PM    Msg. 21 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927

Well, excuse me for not believing in something until I have proof. Just because a network connection can be established between two apps doesn't necessarily mean that AI syncing will commence, as many of the easily swayed idiots in this thread think. I have yet to see you link the transferred data to HCE, nor a great deal of many things.

AI syncing isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Yes, bot location is important, which, if we believe your app's capabilities, will sync bot locations. However, you still must account for AI behaviors. Just because the location of AI sync does not mean that their behaviors will sync, as AI actions still occur only on the host computer. You'd have to transfer everything regarding the AI, the position they're looking at, their firing, etc. Unless of course, your objective was not to create perfectly synced AI, rather just their positions.

My posts weren't intended to flame, nor were they intended to annoy you to the point to stop working on this app. My intent was to provide my reason for my extreme skepticism, and I would be rather glad to be proven wrong.
Edited by Gamma927 on Aug 16, 2010 at 10:47 AM


Next time word it in a better manner then, or use a private message, this would be more helpful. If you wish to help me work on the project, I would be most thankful. I need input and suggestions on how to, and what to add and do in my application. NPcode is very similar to C++ (now it is), bit since I do not know C++ very well, I am not doing it in C++.

The theory of the idea, you would need to admit, would in fact work.

THOERY:

Definitions-
Host = The computer, in which the game being played, was started
Players = The computers, in which connected to the host, will be playing the Host's game
Server = The Connection all the players/host will connect to in order to play the same game

The Host will open RipCord, following by entering their IP Address and stating the map, game type, and number of players in the game. The Host will open Halo Custom Edition and start the Server with the given IP Address, map, and game type. RipCord will search the Server List for this game with the specific IP Address using the same Server List the HCE game uses.

Once RipCord finds this game, it creates its own Code, this Code allows other players to connect to the Host's RipCord, while using RipCord on their own computers. They enter this Code into their RipCord application, telling it which RipCord application to be connected to. (the Codes will be random 8 alpha-numerical codes that never repeat).

When they join the game, the Bots movements, animations, locations, and reactions will be sent to the other RipCord programs, setting up the Bots in each map to move in the same place on every player's screen, act the same way, and have the same actions.

The only flaw in this is that the maps will need to be setup for this software, meaning a input and output will need to be placed into the map's before the software will run with them.


Any ideas around this would be of help
Edited by KillerKip1 on Aug 16, 2010 at 12:11 PM


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 12:49 PM    Msg. 22 of 92       
Can we see a vid of this application in the works? cause your not gonna get people to believe you right away, they have hope but make them believe. Cause for over the past 9 years or so Halo could never sync ai due to the Random Issue, if you've found a way to sync them people are going to want more proof then just a cmd prompt box


Ro0ster
Joined: Jan 21, 2008

is a rooster


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 01:30 PM    Msg. 23 of 92       
Wouldn't the AI's data on each clients side still be generated differently on each persons computer? I mean the game doesn't send the data across to the server but rather makes its own data on each clients side. If your program does succeed in transferring the data to the clients, won't the game still be making its own data for each person at the same time as your program corrects it. I believe this would cause problems.

And kip: http://www.google.com/products?q=Halo+Combat+Evolved+%2F+PC+&show=dd


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 01:31 PM    Msg. 24 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927
You guys are so easily convinced. After all these years, you entrust a single 3rd party program to sync AI? Pardon me if you will, but I'm extremely skeptical about this. Considering the only progress shown, no offense, was two computers connecting to one another, this hardly sways my opinion of whether it will work or not.
I trust Kip, he sent me a very detailed email on how he's doing this.


OpsY
Joined: Feb 19, 2007

Frobisher Bay


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 02:14 PM    Msg. 25 of 92       
I'm Skeptical that after so many years noone has done it altho I still believe somehow someday it will happen... As some others have stated before, Syncing position isn't good enough. You need to sync wether the Ai is looking at your, running, shooting or any other behavior


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 02:20 PM    Msg. 26 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: KillerKip1
Gamma, out of everyone, your the one to go against this software?

What you see in those images is as far as I am.

Its enough proof because those 2 links are sent through a LAN game setup on the desktop, to my laptop and back, making a looped connection for data to be sent.

The data sent allows the game to determine where the Bots should be located.

And since I could not do this WITH the HCE game, I decided to just go third party with it.




How exactly did you isolate the AI info from the engine so RipCord knows what to send?


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 03:14 PM    Msg. 27 of 92       
I understand your plan, and I understand why many would think it would work. However, there's two main flaws that must be addressed.

1) If you were to sync AI perfectly, you must send the location, movements, animations, reactions, etc, as you said. However, as AI actions occur only on the host computer, in order to continuously sync the AI, you must bombard client computers with information due to the tendency of AI to act and react. The load of information that must be transferred in that small amount of time would overwhelm computers with slower internet connections, and thus, this app would require a high speed internet connection.

2) Your "only flaw" is the flaw in this app: getting the app to plug into Halo. As far as I know, there is no way to set up a map in order to allow the app to run. The only way, as far as I know, to receive and transfer data from Halo is to use an external app. But then again, isn't that what this is? Bypass this step, and you'll have made significant progress towards your app.


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 03:19 PM    Msg. 28 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927
I understand your plan, and I understand why many would think it would work. However, there's two main flaws that must be addressed.

1) If you were to sync AI perfectly, you must send the location, movements, animations, reactions, etc, as you said. However, as AI actions occur only on the host computer, in order to continuously sync the AI, you must bombard client computers with information due to the tendency of AI to act and react. The load of information that must be transferred in that small amount of time would overwhelm computers with slower internet connections, and thus, this app would require a high speed internet connection.

2) Your "only flaw" is the flaw in this app: getting the app to plug into Halo. As far as I know, there is no way to set up a map in order to allow the app to run. The only way, as far as I know, to receive and transfer data from Halo is to use an external app. But then again, isn't that what this is? Bypass this step, and you'll have made significant progress towards your app.

This would work best on LAN games, then.
Yeah, you still have to show us the app in halo, Kip.


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 04:20 PM    Msg. 29 of 92       
lol wat, the picture you gave us of you "running" your program is a default windows cmd command...


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:00 PM    Msg. 30 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: doompig444
Quote: --- Original message by: KillerKip1
Gamma, out of everyone, your the one to go against this software?

What you see in those images is as far as I am.

Its enough proof because those 2 links are sent through a LAN game setup on the desktop, to my laptop and back, making a looped connection for data to be sent.

The data sent allows the game to determine where the Bots should be located.

And since I could not do this WITH the HCE game, I decided to just go third party with it.




How exactly did you isolate the AI info from the engine so RipCord knows what to send?


Thats a bug inserted into the maps, I did a testrun on LAN to see if it would send and recieve data, I am still figuring this out, as I said above with my theory.

What might end up happening, is that each map will need to have a script allowing the map to communicate with RipCord. Since the map communicates with the engine, that work is done. Its a lot more complicated, but again, I am just testing the "sending" and "recieving" right now.

Give me some time to get farther with this application before begging me for proof of ingame stuff.

I will update as I get more and more, I wont do the "blue-ball" effect a lot of the other teams do with holding out on the development of stuff.


Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy
lol wat, the picture you gave us of you "running" your program is a default windows cmd command...


NPcode is very simple stuff, dont expect much this early on, if your expecting it to be flashy, your going to be very disapointed very quickly. I am not a rich kid. I work at Taco Bell for pete sake!
Edited by KillerKip1 on Aug 16, 2010 at 05:03 PM


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:09 PM    Msg. 31 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: KillerKip1
What might end up happening, is that each map will need to have a script allowing the map to communicate with RipCord. Since the map communicates with the engine, that work is done. Its a lot more complicated, but again, I am just testing the "sending" and "recieving" right now.


Read:
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927
2) Your "only flaw" is the flaw in this app: getting the app to plug into Halo. As far as I know, there is no way to set up a map in order to allow the app to run. The only way, as far as I know, to receive and transfer data from Halo is to use an external app. But then again, isn't that what this is? Bypass this step, and you'll have made significant progress towards your app.


KillerKip1
Joined: May 3, 2008

Rigs of Rods


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:15 PM    Msg. 32 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927
Quote: --- Original message by: KillerKip1
What might end up happening, is that each map will need to have a script allowing the map to communicate with RipCord. Since the map communicates with the engine, that work is done. Its a lot more complicated, but again, I am just testing the "sending" and "recieving" right now.


Read:
Quote: --- Original message by: Gamma927
2) Your "only flaw" is the flaw in this app: getting the app to plug into Halo. As far as I know, there is no way to set up a map in order to allow the app to run. The only way, as far as I know, to receive and transfer data from Halo is to use an external app. But then again, isn't that what this is? Bypass this step, and you'll have made significant progress towards your app.


Yeah, well, integration will come after I get it working as an external, once its there, and "I" know it is good enough to be used by everyone without problem or issue.

You know any C++?


Donut
Joined: Sep 30, 2006

I swear I'm not actually dead


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:22 PM    Msg. 33 of 92       
so youre going to attempt to extract all of the data about the ai's movement, rotation, location, aiming, etc... and send it to the client? ok. im sure youve looked at AI tags. you should know that AI generate random numbers within given bounds to do things like aim and decide whether to flee or not. the ai on everyones computer is going to be generating random numbers for aiming bounds, where to run, etc... that in itself is an issue.

the second issue is how are you going to inject that data into the client's games? you would have to override the default ai's code, and that involves changing the engine.

if you need help with programming, you could always ask on modacity. there are a couple of really good programmers there.
Edited by Donut on Aug 16, 2010 at 05:23 PM


doompig444
Joined: Mar 22, 2010

MorniŽ alantiŽ


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:44 PM    Msg. 34 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Donut

the second issue is how are you going to inject that data into the client's games?


Edited by Donut on Aug 16, 2010 at 05:23 PM


this.


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Aug 16, 2010 05:44 PM    Msg. 35 of 92       
Quote: --- Original message by: Donut

if you need help with programming, you could always ask on modacity. there are a couple of really good programmers there.
Edited by Donut on Aug 16, 2010 at 05:23 PM


If this thread can abrley survive halo maps with the non belivers it would die at modacity. no good dirt bags only post on what they think or see they dont even read the description over there.

 
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