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Author Topic: Requiem - Extinction on Steroids (1498 messages, Page 6 of 43)
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CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 01:32 PM    Msg. 176 of 1498       
1) To the best of my knowledge, you can't give any one vehicle a higher ceiling than any other. The whole altitude limit is really an invisible plane you setup in 3ds and give it a material name of vehicle_clipping or something like that. It tells Halo to forbid any and every vehicle from passing beyond that plane. I don't think you can change that, aside from hacking yourself out.

2) A Shortsword/cryobomb pair is interesting, but I have more than enough human vehicles as it is. I need some more Covenant tech; not just vehicles, but weapons, scenery, textures (maybe). Otherwise the Covenant are going to have a pretty natural looking base, compared to the human's epic base.

3) Pictures of the rebuild: it has soooo many less polys than the original (wireframes will come later. Right now, the flat areas appear to waste poly space, and I don't have a set plan for the BSP, so I don't want anyone talking about the poly count for now), and now has room for suggestions to the environment. Tell me what you think if the setup thus far:

Album:
http://img697.imageshack.us/g/rebuildsecondarywall3.png/

Main:
Note the sloped hill that is not nearly as steep as the original cliffs. The hill leads into a body of water, marks a kill barrier, and also serves as the chasm's stream outlet. The blue wall is a secondary wall I put up, so that 40% of the map didn't have to be flanked by the Sentinel Wall, and the other 60% by sheer cliffs. This breaks it up. The brown structures is a structure I made to attach to the wall. As of right now, the wall is not detail at all, but that will come later.


Closeups:
Notice how the ground slopes into the wall. I thought this was an interesting idea, but it also provides too much cover, and some of the hills may not be traversable (fall in, with no way out). Just tell me what you think of the concept, knowing that I can level out the hills if need be.





Also, I shortened the Sentinel Wall (seemed abnormally high, even for the Forerunners), and extended it a bit to give it some realism. Now the player will not be able see an ending point. Unlike the Quarantine Zone, which features a huge, long chunk of the wall and endpoints that cannot be seen because the player cannot (without modding) get up high enough, my wall simply has bends that make it impossible for you to find the endpoint, no matter where you go (inside the map's boundaries). Not that there's much to see anyway.

The chasm is not nearly as deep, is a lot smoother, and curves. The waterfall/water output will be at the Sentinel Wall end, and that end is all higher up than the opposite end. A realistic slope accompanies the chasm floor, tapering out into the body of water I described earlier. Other than that, I don't really have any specific plans for the geometry. Oh, the gray thing in the center is the minimap.


MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 01:37 PM    Msg. 177 of 1498       
Looks nice.
What is that brown thing?


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 01:40 PM    Msg. 178 of 1498       
I said it's a structure. Based off of the larger modules seen on the Sentinel Wall. It's basically something I concocted to break up the monotony of the wall. Plus it looks cool, reminds me of The Ark (level), and does look pretty Forerunner-esque, if I do say so myself.


MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 01:44 PM    Msg. 179 of 1498       
Cool. the map seems a bit overly massive considering the already large size of the minimap.
Hopefully Halo won't die on this map.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 03:39 PM    Msg. 180 of 1498       
lol yea. and don't forget to give it alot of portals lol. the original extinction only had like 4 portals. yours should have like 10 and the hangars and bases need their own portals too


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 05:47 PM    Msg. 181 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
I need some more Covenant tech; not just vehicles, but weapons, scenery, textures (maybe). Otherwise the Covenant are going to have a pretty natural looking base, compared to the human's epic base.


Maybe something akin to the Type-27 XMF Banshee Interceptors from Halo: Reach.

Perhaps outfit it with a pair of heavy cannons with a relatively slow rate of fire. And it has to be super fast. >:D

As for the weapons... hm. The Anti-Air Fuel Rod Cannon was incredibly useful on Extinction. You could probably even create a weapon with characteristics similar to that of the Plasma Launcher.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 06:29 PM    Msg. 182 of 1498       
hmmm... that banshee looks good. i could make it. shouldn't be that hard. just split the tail fins extend the plasma cannons and widen the canopy.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 06:35 PM    Msg. 183 of 1498       
Sergeant Major, that has got to be the funniest emoticon thing I have EVER seen!

I am NOT making any vehicles or weapons. It's just too hard. I don't mind modifying existing ones, even in 3ds, but I will not make anything from scratch, and probably won't bother even if I'm supplied with the model. I prefer working with something that has been partially tagged or better. I'm already working on the mbanshee, which is a regular Banshee with faster speeds, spectre-style shots as the main weapon, and homing fuel rods as secondary. Basically an equivalent of the Hornet.

Yeah, I forgot all about teleporters. There will be an amply sized network covering the spread of the map. Extinction has sucky portals, and the Covenant side teleporters have no labels. I'll see what I can do to supply labels so everyone knows where each teleporter goes. If not, I'll probably just make each one two-way, so people can backtrack easily if they enter the wrong one. I'll probably do that anyway.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 07:10 PM    Msg. 184 of 1498       
So far, here's what I have planned, off the top of my head:

Crates
Uplink
Flagstand
Antenna tower (once I locate one)
Recharge stations (methane)

Spectre
Ghost-CMT (if I can get it to work in MP)
Needler Ghost-CMT (if I can get it to work in MP)
Wraith-CMT (same deal)
AA Wraith-forget the author, but it's like the only one on Halomaps
Banshee
mbanshee
Scarab-tweaked to be more strategic and less nooberific
Seraph-tweaked to actually work as an effective fighter
Shade-stock (perhaps with several variants from CMT)

Plasma Rifle-stock, maybe CMT or something
Plasma Pistol-same deal
Brute Plasma Rifle-CMT
Needler-probably stock
Fuel Rod-stock
Special Fuel Rod-stock fuel rod, but modded (sourced from a map whose name escapes me. It fires the rods straight, then an burst kicks in that gives it some more speed. I love it.)
AA Fuel Rod-Extinction
Beam Rifle-Extinction, tweaked to work at ranges more than 2 feet
Anti-Armor Beam Rifle-Extinction, tweaked to be more lethal to vehicles
Spiker-CMT
Carbine-CMT
Brute Shot-CMT

I think that's it. Anything from CMT I currently do not have ready to go, or even ready to mod in Guerilla. I haven't looked at the CMT tagset releases yet; if anyone were willing to extract all those things above so they're ready for tweaking for me, I would seriously appreciate it. It'd get this map out a lot sooner. For the vehicles, I don't know if they'll work in MP or not, because they all can be destroyed. I do not know if they use the mechanism from Halo like the stock campaign Banshees or Ghosts, or a different mechanism like the one for Longswords on Hugeass, but whatever the source, I haven't tested them in MP maps. Again, if anyone would be willing to extract them all and see if they check out, I would be deeply grateful.

*If anyone does take me up on that offer, I have a list of human equipment needing extraction and verification.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 07:44 PM    Msg. 185 of 1498       
*waves*

I got an antennae tower.


Advancebo
Joined: Jan 14, 2008


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 07:53 PM    Msg. 186 of 1498       
use my h2 cstorage crates, some pretty good shaders on it.
http://www.mediafire.com/?71p9a6dfy3crfpv

goes into "tags\h2\scenery"

looks like this, except better.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 30, 2010 11:59 PM    Msg. 187 of 1498       
Those crates look nice. Are they on the site?

SGM: well, in an effort to me thorough, how about you just extract pretty much every weapon and vehicle from the tagsets? I mean I plan on using almost all the CMT Covenant vehicles, as well as the Hogs, then there's the weapons...MA5C, pistol, turrets, SPLASER, SMG, the list goes on. The stock nades are fine; the CMT ones are awesome, but their effects and sounds would probably lag some people. I mean, if you want a specific list of what I want, I can provide you with one, but it's 12AM here and I have to get up in less then 7 hours for a full day of classes and ROTC training, so I want to get some rest. Thanks for your offer.


sargejohnson
Joined: Apr 20, 2009

Shall we play a game?


Posted: Oct 1, 2010 06:50 AM    Msg. 188 of 1498       
about the bsp:
You WILL need to portal it heavily, really, especially if you do not want the entire game to lag on a 16-player multiplayer game (yeah i know some think Halo is dying, but it still exists).

And the cliffs at the map edge?.....well, something tells me that once people start camping there, the entire game would be about killing people in the cliffs instead of getting on with the game, so no, levelout the cliffs, even better if you would just make it look as though the wall has raised the cliffs, so they rise as they near the walls.

about the vehicles:
If you are gonna use CMT vehicles, do some bitmap optimization on those models if possible, as most are very high res and contain detail that sometimes is unnecessary and will lag the game.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Oct 1, 2010 07:38 AM    Msg. 189 of 1498       
I will be doing some intense portaling. I agree somewhat with your hypothesis concerning the cliffs near the wall. People can camp there, but given the height of the hills, I don't think it would be a very strategic place to camp, as the height blocks most of the map. It seems a good place to seek refuge more than camp. But I'll explore options. Raising them doesn't sound like that bad of an idea.

Crud. I forgot about that. Curse CMT for their high attention to detail. I may just look at the tags and modify the stock Ghost accordingly or source their model with a different bitmap.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 1, 2010 07:58 PM    Msg. 190 of 1498       
what i did is i took the stock ghost and apply the CMT shader. CMT released an mp hog tagset so they won't blow up and for the banshee i did the same thing that i did with the ghost. as for the weapons, you'll have to make the item collections yourself lol. i already made them and you can get them from this map: http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5505 . you can get the vehicles from there too.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Oct 2, 2010 04:17 PM    Msg. 191 of 1498       
I'll look into that.

New question: it was suggested that the cliffs near the blue wall would prove to be a nasty camping spot. I actually like the cliffs as they are, purely for design reasons, as it adds a bit of mystery to the wall, in addition to looking interesting. Now, I could either:

  • Leave them as they are.

  • Pass over them, looking for ways to optimize the anti-campability of the area, or create disadvantages for campers, i.e. an easy way for aircraft to get in without too much warning and dispatch the noob.

  • Leave them as they are, but setup a water plane, complete with a water fog volume or whatever it is, thus obscuring visibility for the noobs. Doing so would still preserve most of the mysterious element of the area while at the same time offering some degree of refuge combined with the vulnerability of relatively easy one-way detection (players outside the volume can pass over, looking for names that may appear or red reticles while players inside have no visibility).

  • Remove the mystery of the area with the tradeoff of one less camping spot and better gameplay. This would probably mean raising the geometry to rise up to the wall, rather than down.


I'm pretty much impartial to any idea I mentioned above, or another suggestion. I am designing this with the player in mind, after all, with the degree of mystery and awe-inspiring BSP common of the Halo series.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Oct 2, 2010 05:05 PM    Msg. 192 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
Leave them as they are, but setup a water plane, complete with a water fog volume or whatever it is, thus obscuring visibility for the noobs. Doing so would still preserve most of the mysterious element of the area while at the same time offering some degree of refuge combined with the vulnerability of relatively easy one-way detection (players outside the volume can pass over, looking for names that may appear or red reticles while players inside have no visibility).

Remove the mystery of the area with the tradeoff of one less camping spot and better gameplay. This would probably mean raising the geometry to rise up to the wall, rather than down.


It makes more sense that the geometry would rise up the wall. It's been there a long time, I'd imagine things would start piling up around it and growing up the sides.

But water is good, too. :3


sargejohnson
Joined: Apr 20, 2009

Shall we play a game?


Posted: Oct 3, 2010 01:42 AM    Msg. 193 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77

It makes more sense that the geometry would rise up the wall. It's been there a long time, I'd imagine things would start piling up around it and growing up the sides.

But water is good, too. :3


^^this.

and, about the cliffs, you could vary the cliffs that rise up against the wall a little, such that at some sections the cliff suddenly drops into a depression, so its a small hole for someone to hide in...
but i would have to admit, if a noob decides to camp in there with a AA rocket launcher, things can get pretty tough, if some one flies over it and the noob takes the guy out.
Possible solution is to add water plane to cover the depression like you said.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 3, 2010 01:58 AM    Msg. 194 of 1498       
water plane it. and i don't need a wireframe to see the amount of polys lol. those are quite a few.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Oct 3, 2010 02:48 AM    Msg. 195 of 1498       
Indeed they are. I started out with a higher count then I'd like to have, knowing that I'd design the bSP with the count as is, then pass over and optimize it accordingly, so hilly areas could still be smooth, cliffs smooth and/or rough, and flatter parts, well, flat.

By the way, assassin, I checked out your map. I'll be able to source a some of those CMT items from it, which is nice. Many thanks. One thing though: I noticed the addition of the Forward Unto Dawn (or the class of vessel she is), and the lovely addition of flying Pelicans. Kudos to you, for making a sky filled with something purely for design and appearance rather than functionality. The Pelicans had predictable paths, but that sky is the first I've seen with something like that (yes, I know the Pelicans aren't part of the actual sky tag).

I see so far the direction is water plane the cliffs. I will continue thinking about the possible uses for that area, and try and come up with something you guys like, according to your posts here, and something that defeats campers and attempts to impose strategy on the player. Which reminds me...anyone care to offer a concise method for setting up an omnipresent kill barrier? I could look into it myself, but the less time I spend on things like that, the more time I can spend on releasing this thing. I'd love to get it done and play this.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 3, 2010 05:14 PM    Msg. 196 of 1498       
the kill barrier is easy but its done in sapien and with scripts. focus on getting the bsp through tool before the kill barriers. and thanks for the kudos. i haven't seen too many maps like that so i went ahead and made one lol. and thats just a beta. it had cmt stuff just cuz i hadn't made any custom stuff yet. not that i have it will be added and the cmt stuff will be minimized. wish more people would download it though.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Oct 3, 2010 05:50 PM    Msg. 197 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: darkassassin14
Wish more people would download it though.


Link pl0x? I wanna try it.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 12:16 AM    Msg. 198 of 1498       
here you go:
http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5505
works for all gametypes. keep in mind that it is a beta.


bobz7
Joined: Sep 29, 2010

Were it so easy...


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 07:34 AM    Msg. 199 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo

Yeah. Actually, scratch-building looks like it'll make it quicker anyway, since the scale of everything was off. I didn't like how big my map was, since the tiny size of Extinction is enough to create clipping problems. Speaking of size, tell me what you think of the scales: as best I can tell, Extinction is the size it should be, I scaled the Assault Carrier up, and the green thing is my map. The gray thing in the center of that is the minimap, and the teal object is the Sentinel Wall. Tell me if you think the scale of everything is good, or if it needs adjusting.

http://img706.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20100922at832.png/


Obviously, I will edit the size of the Sentinel Wall so it doesn't jut out of the map. I'm going to get the scale SOLIDIFIED early on, so speak now or forever hold your peace. I'd really rather not tinker with the scale after this so I can focus on actually making progress, instead of moving verts around for a minute and lamenting over the sheer size of the map.

EDIT: the POA will be roughly the same size it is in the Extinction BSP, but I'm sourcing it from my previous build, which was sourced from d40. Overall, it will be like, I don't know, 100 or so meters shorter in game then the POA you see up there. Also, the Assault Carrier is replacing the semi-Assault Carrier I sourced from Extinction (and subsequently modified) that I have in my previous build. It will be deformed and crashed, so tell me if you think it's too big. I tried to get it around 5.346 km long (according to Halopedia), but the scales in gmax suck, so I'm pretty much in the dark. It says MC is 5'10", or 1.787m tall, which I'm pretty sure is incorrect.
Edited by CAG Gonzo on Sep 22, 2010 at 08:42 PM


So, if I'm not wrong, the orange mesh is the original extinction map and the green one is the one you're making? Is that your final size or do you plan to scale it down a bit? That map would be really big (I mean HUGE) if that's the final size. But then again, that probably is the general idea. Anyway, so how do plan to make the lightmaps for the map after you're done with the modeling? I'm not really into modding now, but I've tried making maps as big as or even slightly smaller than extinction but never could get the radiosity in sapien (or tool) to complete successfully. Is there a better way that I might have missed?

Sorry I can't post images now. I'm new :|
Edited by bobz7 on Oct 4, 2010 at 07:38 AM


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 07:40 AM    Msg. 200 of 1498       
Yes, the orange thing is Extinction, exactly as I got it from an obj importer. Yes, the map is huge, and I'd like to scale it down a bit more, but the idea is to make the map bigger than Extinction. You're scaring me with the whole lightmaps thing here...that could be a huge hiccup. As I've never successfully completed a map, I am not too versed with the Sapien processes, lightmaps and radiosity included. I don't know of a better way.


MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 07:46 AM    Msg. 201 of 1498       
For a map ths big, RUN YOUR RADIOSITY IN TOOL.
You will save many a headache.


bobz7
Joined: Sep 29, 2010

Were it so easy...


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 08:41 AM    Msg. 202 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
Yes, the orange thing is Extinction, exactly as I got it from an obj importer. Yes, the map is huge, and I'd like to scale it down a bit more, but the idea is to make the map bigger than Extinction. You're scaring me with the whole lightmaps thing here...that could be a huge hiccup. As I've never successfully completed a map, I am not too versed with the Sapien processes, lightmaps and radiosity included. I don't know of a better way.


LOL not trying to scare you :P Its just that I never managed to get a very big (at least not as big as extinction) map through radiosity myself.


disturbed
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Im a mac, deal with it. I still run PC through emu


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 07:22 PM    Msg. 203 of 1498       
that was actually really fun. i played it when you told me on the dreadnought topic. i like the random pelicans flying over. there needs to be banshees flying over too! lol.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 08:00 PM    Msg. 204 of 1498       
a banshee wouldn't fit with the human theme unless its after the human-covenant war, which it's not. and for the radiosity if you portal it enough then it would cut the lightmapping time down quite a bit as i found out when i was making some well detailed maps. i never portaled a map before because i thought they were too complicated to make and i would always have to leave the lightmaps running over night lol. but when i potaled them it cut that waiting time down to like a quarter.


disturbed
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Im a mac, deal with it. I still run PC through emu


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 08:16 PM    Msg. 205 of 1498       
right... i kind of meant chasing the pelican but whatever.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 08:52 PM    Msg. 206 of 1498       
well that sounds nice but i would have to make an animation for a banshee maneuvering after the pelican and make the pelican doing evasive maneuvers and it would be very repetitive so nah. but i will try and make the pelicans a little less predictable. maybe i could make it an ai driving them since it won't matter if they sync lol.


disturbed
Joined: Jul 31, 2010

Im a mac, deal with it. I still run PC through emu


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 09:10 PM    Msg. 207 of 1498       
lol that would be cool. and yeah i guess the animation would get boring


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Oct 4, 2010 11:36 PM    Msg. 208 of 1498       
yea i think it would be better if i leave it the way it is but maybe change their flight paths a little.


bobz7
Joined: Sep 29, 2010

Were it so easy...


Posted: Oct 5, 2010 11:58 AM    Msg. 209 of 1498       
So this this going to be a SP map or MP??


MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Oct 5, 2010 12:47 PM    Msg. 210 of 1498       
MP.
daerp.

 
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