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Author Topic: Requiem - Extinction on Steroids (1498 messages, Page 3 of 43)
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Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 07:10 AM    Msg. 71 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77
It would be cool, but there aren't really any gameplay benefits of including them. Perhaps put a few deactivated husks of Sentinals long abandoned, but aside from that, I don't see a purpose in having animated ones.

no point, who the hell looks for sentinel wreckage on a huge map like this?


Everyone was talking about having Sentinal AI. So I suggested that scenery would be far more efficient than actual bipeds floating about.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 07:45 AM    Msg. 72 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix

no point, who the hell looks for sentinel wreckage on a huge map like this?


My thoughts exactly. Not to discredit those who want to see Sentinels here, but seriously, those things are so tiny no one will really miss them, especially if the combat is going well, aka heated. If this were a campaign map (and may soon be...) then yes, I'd probably put them in in one way or another. But right now, I need to optimize the hell out of the map, not just in terms of poly count. I want something that looks great but also plays great. I'm sure you all feel the same way, since Extinction can lag a lot sometimes.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 08:15 AM    Msg. 73 of 1498       
This map will invariably lag for some. I can't fix that. But Battle Creek didn't lag all that much. My goal is to make this lag less than Extinction. Having four beaver bases won't really make Requiem lag all that mug more than it would without them.


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 09:31 AM    Msg. 74 of 1498       
U haz errors.
The reason why BC doesn't lag is because it was portaled. Extincion had too large open spaces and no portals.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 09:44 AM    Msg. 75 of 1498       
Thanks, but those aren't errors. Those gray polys you see surrounding the beaver bases are there for easier meshing with the minimap. Currently, those gray polys are pretty much coplanar with the minimap's floor, which is why you see weird lines. It's just how nearly coplanar objects look in my gmax. However, I did investigate mis-IDs, and found a mismatch on the other base by the teleporter, so thanks.

And yes, I will attempt to get some good portaling in this map, if nothing else in the minimap. I've never portaled before, but I do know how the process is done. My biggest fear is that it'll glitch in some places, and simply cause certain areas of the map to vanish when they shouldn't. Take a look at the tutorial map in Sapien that Bungie made. The portaling sucks from above, but is ok for ground level. BC also doesn't lag because the map is incredibly small. The bridge on Extinction is bigger than BC. My bridges aren't much better, but look cooler.

Anyways, I'm wrapping up the placement of the in-gmax scenic additions. I will attach and mesh them to the minimap soon, then wrap up other things, then mirror blue side. I will then break the blue segments you see in the wall on blue side, place them, ID them, UVW the whole blue side, and move to red side. Red side will receive some major changes to differentiate it from blue side, but I'm not entirely sure what to change. For example, the destroyed section inside blue side will have to either go or receive a major overhaul so it doesn't look like a clone of blue side. And there will be a crashed Pelican inside red side, as opposed to outside the wall, as i have planned for the Spirit.

Anyone have something they want to see happen to red side? Keep in mind that this map has been visited by the Flood and has seen numerous encounters between Flood, Forerunner tech, Human, and Covie forces, so of course some areas will have battle damage (hence the destroyed section on blue side, broken beam tower, crashed Spirit, etc).


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 10:14 AM    Msg. 76 of 1498       
Vanishing when it souldn't happens when you don't portal, I believe.
I have gmax too, and that looks like your basic error. Maybe you could post a wireframe of your map.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 10:39 AM    Msg. 77 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: SlappyThePirate
Vanishing when it souldn't happens when you don't portal, I believe.
I have gmax too, and that looks like your basic error. Maybe you could post a wireframe of your map.


Wrong. No. Maybe. I don't know. On the tutorial map, I noticed that if you raised the camera higher than the actual playable area, the portaling did some weird things. You could almost see where a portal was located, because everything on one side was visible, but everything on the other side was not (yes, that's literally what happened. No, I was not in front of an object. No, there was no other dumb mistake on my part that gave it that appearance). I suspect that's just because Bungie portaled it with a 5x5 system (5 portals one way, 5 perpendicular to them), which is really way too much, I think, for a map that size. It may also have something to do with a lack of vertical portals, but I don't know.

As for a wireframe, if by that you mean edged faces + smooth+highlights, I can do that. If you just want a wireframe...then I have no idea how you're going to be able to get any information from that in picture.


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 11:21 AM    Msg. 78 of 1498       
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! PNG!

Save as jpg... the human eye can't really see the difference ffs.


n00b4life97
Joined: Aug 31, 2010

Xfire: halostuffyo


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 11:56 AM    Msg. 79 of 1498       
look's awesome!!


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 11:58 AM    Msg. 80 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
Quote: --- Original message by: SlappyThePirate
Vanishing when it souldn't happens when you don't portal, I believe.
I have gmax too, and that looks like your basic error. Maybe you could post a wireframe of your map.


Wrong. No. Maybe. I don't know. On the tutorial map, I noticed that if you raised the camera higher than the actual playable area, the portaling did some weird things. You could almost see where a portal was located, because everything on one side was visible, but everything on the other side was not (yes, that's literally what happened. No, I was not in front of an object. No, there was no other dumb mistake on my part that gave it that appearance). I suspect that's just because Bungie portaled it with a 5x5 system (5 portals one way, 5 perpendicular to them), which is really way too much, I think, for a map that size. It may also have something to do with a lack of vertical portals, but I don't know.

As for a wireframe, if by that you mean edged faces + smooth+highlights, I can do that. If you just want a wireframe...then I have no idea how you're going to be able to get any information from that in picture.
Portals: I dont really know either :P. They should be in anyway. Just not as small as bungie, and vertically too.
Wireframe: So we can see you modeling skillz. People can actually learn a lot from seeing your edged model, like how detailed it is, how you draw tris and faces, and what triangle are where for lighting purposes.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 01:06 PM    Msg. 81 of 1498       
wow this map is looking so good right now. hope you don't just quit on it.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 01:23 PM    Msg. 82 of 1498       
Well if you mean geometry with edged faces, then yes, I can get that up and I know what you mean when you say the wireframe is helpful to those interested in seeing how I did it. I'll get one up here shortly, once I make a little more headway into the design.


iHalo
Joined: Dec 5, 2009

Modeling ::Royal Carribean's Oasis of the Seas::


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 01:45 PM    Msg. 83 of 1498       
Loooking greatt!! Will destroy Tiamat, best CE map I've seen in forever


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 02:09 PM    Msg. 84 of 1498       
lol i wonder if tiamat is still reading these posts.


Architect of Halo
Joined: May 15, 2009

Justice for all


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 02:15 PM    Msg. 85 of 1498       
Speaking of tiamat, what happened to him?


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 03:32 PM    Msg. 86 of 1498       
he'll be back soon. he went to iraq.


Sergeant 1337
Joined: May 1, 2010

Do you even lift?


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 03:49 PM    Msg. 87 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: darkassassin14
he'll be back soon. he went to iraq.


fo reelz??!!


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 04:28 PM    Msg. 88 of 1498       
Dang. Good on him. And I thought Ender (Endor?) made Extinction, unless it's an alias.

Anywhos, how important do y'all think it is to see some stuff in a destroyed state? As an example, should I bend, twist, and break the in-gmax scenic additions to add some realism, indicating that a struggle with explosives took place? Or should I leave it be, in a relatively undamaged state, pretty much as you see it in the pictures I recently posted? Keep in mind that I can only add so much damage to existing geometry without adding to the vertex count. If it's really important or would look nice to damage some stuff, I'll do it conservatively, but I wanted to get some opinions first.


Advancebo
Joined: Jan 14, 2008


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 05:01 PM    Msg. 89 of 1498       
Conversation started between Advancebo and Tiamat: Wed, Sep 01 16:59:39 2010
[16:59] Advancebo: sup
[16:59] Tiamat: hi


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 05:03 PM    Msg. 90 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: Advancebo
Conversation started between Advancebo and Tiamat: Wed, Sep 01 16:59:39 2010
[16:59] Advancebo: sup
[16:59] Tiamat: hi
I didn't know soldiers had xfire out there.


AGLion
Joined: Jun 29, 2010

- Animator... suck it -


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 05:06 PM    Msg. 91 of 1498       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
Dang. Good on him. And I thought Ender (Endor?) made Extinction, unless it's an alias.

Anywhos, how important do y'all think it is to see some stuff in a destroyed state? As an example, should I bend, twist, and break the in-gmax scenic additions to add some realism, indicating that a struggle with explosives took place? Or should I leave it be, in a relatively undamaged state, pretty much as you see it in the pictures I recently posted? Keep in mind that I can only add so much damage to existing geometry without adding to the vertex count. If it's really important or would look nice to damage some stuff, I'll do it conservatively, but I wanted to get some opinions first.


Two massive ships just crash landed in a gorge. Obviously there is going to be damage.

Of course, this is as long as you still have the ships in there.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 05:54 PM    Msg. 92 of 1498       
yea the ships are still there. and they actually have damage now.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 08:01 PM    Msg. 93 of 1498       
1) Soldiers, Marines (HOORAH!), and Airmen actually do have access to many luxuries. Granted they don't have access to other things we do, and they live in constant danger, but I digress.

2) Yes. The ships are in fact damaged. Go figure: you crash a ship hard into a solid object, deformations and damage are likely to occur. Hmm...

I should have been more specific: what I was asking was should I damage the minimap. I've done some deforming, but I'm talking about BAM blow off a chunk of one of the bases or something. Blowing chunks off means I have to add more vertices, and possibly take that chunk off and put it somewhere, but it's definitely doable. I ask because you don't see too much damage in Bungie's maps: they did nothing to the POA except bend the spires up front, and their 'debris' on b40 is little more than random pieces of metal that came from God knows where. My damage, if you all want to see it, will be legit.


AGLion
Joined: Jun 29, 2010

- Animator... suck it -


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 11:38 PM    Msg. 94 of 1498       
Then go ahead and do it, if its not too much trouble.

I'm more concerned with how the map will play out though. I hope you're learning from the mistakes of maps such as Hugeass.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 1, 2010 11:42 PM    Msg. 95 of 1498       
Indeed I am. However, to make the map an Extinction 'remake', if you will, it needs to be somewhat large to provide sufficient airspace for travel and dogfighting. At the same time I despise the clipping and have been trying to make it smaller and smaller. Originally, the map was about 8 times the area of Extinction, which was probably twice as big as Coldsnap. Since then, it's been scaled down to roughly twice the area of Extinction. I was hoping to include the clipping distance changer program, but I haven't used that in forever, so I don't know if it still works on later OS's, like 7. It did on XP.


darkassassin14
Joined: Jul 23, 2007

El. Psy. Congroo.


Posted: Sep 2, 2010 01:43 AM    Msg. 96 of 1498       
lol i still have that program. i need to use it on extinction alot.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 10, 2010 08:46 AM    Msg. 97 of 1498       
Alright, I've finished the good majority of the minimap's BSP. Pictures will follow. UVWing is nowhere near complete, bu shouldn't take too long to finish (famous last words). When I post the pictures, I'll need you guys to tell me what to change. I mirrors blue side to use as red side and made some changes, but I want you guys to tell me if it looks to similar to blue side, i.e. a really obvious mirror.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Sep 11, 2010 12:59 AM    Msg. 98 of 1498       
Will do!


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 10:47 AM    Msg. 99 of 1498       
Oh boy everyone! More pictures! Yay...

Album:

http://img9.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture1fzq.png

First up, an overview (blue side still has the teal wall chunks):




Note the depressions on red side's exterior cliffs, and how the 'bowl' towards the bottom middle has been somewhat 'filled'.

Next, birds-eye of red side. Note the presence of a larger hill in the rear, and lack of 'destroyed' floor sections in the upper left corner. That area is now dented, as my plan is to put a crashed Pelican there (seen in the last picture):




In this one you can see I actually worked on the busted wall chunks. I realized that if the wall were to be destroyed, it wouldn't be some 'clean' cut that knocked out a large chunk. If that happened, then that would mean someone used some shaped charges to bust the cracks in the wall to blow the chunk out. My goal is to make it look like a series of misfired and missed (i.e. missed the target) rockets and grenades blew the wall open (somewhat). All the chunks will be repositioned and further deformed once the UVWing is complete, so that the deformations are reflected in the mapping (the metal bitmap looks bent, instead of applied over a bent wall):



Lastly, a closeup of the red bases. I did away with the human outpost because it just didn't seem feasible to say that the humans were able to erect a building of that size so quickly, so far away from the crash site. I already had planned to give the Battle Creak bases to red, but I gave them to blue as well, to be fair and even:



Now, tell me if red side looks to similar to blue side. Take into account that both sides are supposed to mirrored designs, meaning same shape. The only changes other than lights and spawned objects is the destroyed sections, such as wall chunks/holes, overflowing dirt piles, the surrounding hills and cliffs, etc. Also tell me if something else needs to be added, or if you need more pictures. UVWed pictures will come once the design is roughly complete.


Frost44
Joined: Nov 27, 2009


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 01:53 PM    Msg. 100 of 1498       
Here, you should make it snowy (snow fixes EVERYTHING), replace the Phantom with the Spirit because the Phantom sucks, and the AI should be smart. Very smart. They should get into vehicles, and charge towards eachother. + Make the Covie Anti Vehicle Sniper a green version of the beam rifle. Itll be awesome + Dont make it smaller, huge maps rule + Yes you should add Hornets and Hawks +Give the Covies 2 AA Wraiths (CMT's)
Edited by Frost44 on Sep 13, 2010 at 02:19 PM


Dwood
Joined: Oct 23, 2007

Judge Ye Therefore


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 02:38 PM    Msg. 101 of 1498       
Also when showing screens always show the lines, verts/pollies/tris so that we can point out awkward geometry that doesn't work.


Sergeant 1337
Joined: May 1, 2010

Do you even lift?


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 04:22 PM    Msg. 102 of 1498       
No, keep the phantoms. Too many maps with spirits already. Make or add halo 2 skin for pelican as well, if you can.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 05:17 PM    Msg. 103 of 1498       
@Frost: awesome picture, by the way. I MAY consider snow. Depends on what other feedback I get. Problem with snow is that I can't have my waterfall, beach/cliff marriage, and I have to lay down some ice because a map with snow and no ice seems poorly constructed.

A green anti-armor rifle sounds interesting. I think I may do that. I probably will make it smaller anyways, because right now I think the map is too big, and that could detract from the fun and negate the purpose of my map (which is to provide an Extinction concept that offers this weird thing called fair, even, balanced, and enjoyable manslaughter). I agree that more space is desirable, but I think even with a reduced size, my map will still afford sufficient room.

There will be Hornets, but no Hawks until someone makes a really good one. The one in RPG Beta 6.2 is close, but the physics are awful, and I have enough on my plate as it is. The Spirits will remain the only crashed Covie dropship for now (as unrealistic as that is), but I may or may not replace the pilot-able dropships with Spirits. I plan to fix the Phantom, but I'm also looking at the Spirit. Let me emphasize this, however: there will be NO AI on this release. If people want an AI-populated variant, then people can make an AI-populated variant. I don't even want to delve into AI inclusion. Too much work for me. Lastly, there will be two Wraiths, more than likely from CMT, but I need to get them first. I here there's problems with the animations and HEK+.

@Dwood: yes, thank you for reminding me. I meant to post some up there, but got distracted by the 5 I took. Let me get some up now:

Album:
http://img810.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=bluewireframe.png

Fun-filled Fotos:













Kindly provide feedback based on the wireframe. Nothing has been completely optimized yet, so I can easily shave off some faces. But like many other things, that will happen when I finish the design.

@Sergreant 1337: the only maps I've seen with Spirits in them is a variant of Hugeass and a buttload of campaign maps. I like that they have legit physics, not some piece of junk file called physics that the Phantom has.

EDIT: forgot the link to the album.
Edited by CAG Gonzo on Sep 13, 2010 at 05:18 PM


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 08:59 PM    Msg. 104 of 1498       
I'm no expert, but from what I can see, the sides are different enough to make it seem as if each side was modelled independently. Any casual observer wouldn't be able to tell that its actually an edited mirror.

I also think you should go with the Spirit rather than the Phantom, especially if this is Installation 04.

The green Covenant Anti-Armor Rifle sounds like a good idea. Perhaps make it fire large-caliber radioactive slugs, similar to the Covenant Carbine, albeit on a larger scale.

A long-range counterpart of the Spartan Laser would be a nice anti-armor weapon for the UNSC forces. Something statistically identical to the Covenant counterpart. The fact that both would be battery-operated also means that aquiring additional ammo wouldn't be as easy, forcing them to save shots for targets of oppurtunity.


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Sep 13, 2010 09:10 PM    Msg. 105 of 1498       
Well, I suppose it's good you can't see a difference, though surely you must be able to see that the sides are similar in concept, such as the open cliffs on the same end on both sides, the 'bowl' on the opposite side, things like that, even if I did change the shape. If it's just not that noticeable/important to remodel it to look more unique, then I'll stop obsessing with it.

Looks like green it is. Should be a simple hue change of the bitmap right (famous last words...)...I'll see what I can do about the high-caliber epicness you're looking for.

I'm included two snipers for both teams: a regular, run-off-the-mill sniper for dispatching foot and light vehicle threats, and a heavy duty, anti-armor model for that bulking behemoth that's got a fix on your position. Both will be counterparts to their Covie/human model, for fairness. Human models will have clips, while Covie ones will operate by battery. I may look into a new object that serves the same purpose as ammo crates for the Covenant, but in the form of a battery, so one doesn't have to completely replace the weapon when they run out of juice. Either that, or I'll try and make it rechargeable (with Duracell Ultras).

 
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