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Author Topic: [Discussion] Do you think that Reach will be a win or fail in CE? (63 messages, Page 2 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Nov 23, 2010 08:53 AM    Msg. 36 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane

I don't know scripting did you just threaten to unit_kill me
Quote: --- Original message by: MoooseGuy
...Why do you think Halo is a horrible game anyway?

played it for years. sick of how overly hyped it's become. the bungie fanbase in general is full people who do nothing but eat, sleep, and drink halo as if it were a life style, like there's no other good gaming experience to be had. there's tons of other very good, equally immersive games out there that are just as much fun, if not more to play. halo fanboys are too stuck up to even give them a try for more than five minutes without ragequitting.
for instance, I just played through max payne 2 for the first time a few days ago. freaking amazing experience. before that, diablo 2 for the first time. those two games alone are very much worth playing, and I encourage anybody who hasn't played them to pick them up and play them through.

I agree with this. There are other fun games to be played (COD IS fun you guys), and I still enjoy Halo just as much (if not maybe a little bit more) than other games. Even though I love to play and make content for Halo, I still like to play competing games as well as games of other genres.

Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Fanbases do not "downgrade" the quality of a game. Only for something like multiplayer does the experience suffer if idiots are playing, but otherwise Halo is one of the most well-made and designed games for it's time.
Really, the FP Animation system is still the simplest and best I've seen in terms of accessibility in modding.

I would also agree with this. Halo does indeed have one of the most interesting sets of fp animations, as well as one of the best sets of textures I have ever laid eyes on. I hate noobs though, it's true. The game's rating seems to not affect it's player base.


sargejohnson
Joined: Apr 20, 2009

Shall we play a game?


Posted: Nov 23, 2010 09:50 AM    Msg. 37 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Fanbases do not "downgrade" the quality of a game. Only for something like multiplayer does the experience suffer if idiots are playing, but otherwise Halo is one of the most well-made and designed games for it's time.


Skyancez3o4
Joined: Apr 6, 2010

I miss CE


Posted: Nov 23, 2010 09:53 PM    Msg. 38 of 63       
On topic pleaze guys, stay friendly. But if this continues, Im neutral. *Just a warning be4 Dennis comes with the lock*


Gamma927
Joined: Jun 12, 2008

Steam: gamma927


Posted: Nov 23, 2010 10:16 PM    Msg. 39 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: DA_Ender
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
I don't know scripting did you just threaten to unit_kill me


Note that the script actually works
Very well I might add :D

HaloIsAHorribleGane is not a number; your script will fail.

I honestly don't see why people consider him as a troll; he has legitimate arguments. He posts intelligently (most of the time), and many of the threads "derailed" by him are actually derailed by people's responses to him.


Cocaine
Joined: Mar 2, 2009

Can't stop napping.


Posted: Nov 23, 2010 11:26 PM    Msg. 40 of 63       
I think he should be less blunt and more flowery


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 04:38 AM    Msg. 41 of 63       
that sounds way too "kawaii" for my tastes

Quote: --- Original message by: ODX
Fanbases do not "downgrade" the quality of a game. Only for something like multiplayer does the experience suffer if idiots are playing, but otherwise Halo is one of the most well-made and designed games for it's time.

Really, the FP Animation system is still the simplest and best I've seen in terms of accessibility in modding.


it's not just the userbase. the halo games these days are rehashes of themselves, with a few minor tweaks to the weapons and a few new features. once reach's campaign was done, I had no desire to replay it. halo's forge mode and user-created content is crippled severely by a horrible matchmaking system that does not allow for any such content. having played the series since halo 1, the overall feel of the gameplay has not left; a feeling I now find bland and repetitive after all these years.

the quality of a game does not affect the replayability and/or fun a user can have with the game. halo's spent so much time refining the graphics and making everything pretty, they've forgotten to do anything out of the box or add any new significant features. the campaign was lacking, it was the same "fight enemies, go to this waypoint" experience that have been in the past however many games. they could have made more obstacles that required use of the armor abilities, IE sprint to jump across a gap, armor lock to avoid taking damage from a mac round, stealth to sneak through a group of enemies armed to the teeth that you would have no chance of fighting. no, all we got were jetpacks in the city. seems to me forge world is the reach's only slightly redeeming quality.

halo's first person animation system may be easy to mod, but it's very limited. you can't make special occasion animations, ie a light on, light off, secondary clip reload. often times some animations are "faked" like the cmt brg, which while still works, is a bit hacky. the engine has serious issues with bone scaling too. more often than not have I seen users complain about their gun disappearing because of it. pros: easy to mod, easy to understand animation sets. cons: terrible limitations, scaling issues, hacky. oh, and the community is infamous for ripping people's heads off for making bad animations.
Edited by HaloIsAHorribleGane on Nov 24, 2010 at 04:56 AM


MF Boom
Joined: Mar 5, 2007

I am the bone of my sword...


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 06:56 AM    Msg. 42 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
that sounds way too "kawaii" for my tastes


Oh dear. I didn't know you were a weeaboo.

also, tl;dr most of your posts, but what I did skim through, gotta agree. Admittedly, I've played Halo since the first game, and I do definitely think Reach was so far better than Halo 3. But I've played Black Ops, and it's pretty good. I thought MW2 was hideous though. I got sick of the Marathon + Lightweight + Commando Pro + Tactical Knife bull(you know what word goes here) very fast. But, I spend the least of my time playing Halo. I'll play it on PC here only because it's a classic, but I spend more time watching TV shows like The Office or Parks & Recreation, or even playing various RPG or RTS games. Actually, I think I spend more time playing Sid Meier's Civilization V than any other game on PC.

Halo started out great. The campaign of the first game is hands down the best one they made. Halo 3's campaign was absolutely awful though. The last mission where you're driving away on a course of floating black platforms that are randomly exploding was completely stupid. Not only does it not physically make sense how these black platforms were floating erroneously all over the place, but they were spontaneously exploding without any sort of devices being planted on them, stuff dropping on them, nothing. They were just exploding. Sure, it was moderately fun. But they decided "Hey, we ended Halo 1 with an awesome warthog escape sequence, let's do it again, only make it far more complicated and original!". They obviously had no idea what else they could do. They'd already run out ideas in Halo 2. Halo Reach was the only thing that made up for the failures of Halo 2 and 3, by making it actually more original and unique, keeping it fresh, but still keeping the Halo feel to it as much as possible despite this. It wasn't a complete overhaul, but I enjoy it quite a bit.


IcePhoenix
Joined: Sep 9, 2010

-Minor modeler-


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 07:20 AM    Msg. 43 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
seems to me forge world is the reach's only slightly redeeming quality.

you can't make special occasion animations, ie a light on, light off

except I can't see how you're supposed to fully enjoy such a huge map when the player cap is 16. It has so much potential gone to waste because they didn't bother to allow at least 32 players in a sever.

and I've seen a video on youtube which had light-on/light-off animations with an AR.


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 07:22 AM    Msg. 44 of 63       
oh god I'm not a weeaboo I'd kill myself before I started liking anime

granted... some of it's watchable, but if I see one more teenage schoolgirl relationship crisis anime I'll crap my pants.

halo 2 and 3 should have been compressed into one game with levels like the halo 2 e3 2003 trailer with lots of different stuff happening at once, rather than long, drawn out boring levels. the events of the e3 2003 trailer took two whole freaking levels to get through. it would have been much better if they had just compressed the story

Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
seems to me forge world is the reach's only slightly redeeming quality.

you can't make special occasion animations, ie a light on, light off

except I can't see how you're supposed to fully enjoy such a huge map when the player cap is 16. It has so much potential gone to waste because they didn't bother to allow at least 32 players in a sever.

and I've seen a video on youtube which had light-on/light-off animations with an AR.


I know. that was pre-release footage
Edited by HaloIsAHorribleGane on Nov 24, 2010 at 07:27 AM


MF Boom
Joined: Mar 5, 2007

I am the bone of my sword...


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 05:27 PM    Msg. 45 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
oh god I'm not a weeaboo I'd kill myself before I started liking anime

granted... some of it's watchable, but if I see one more teenage schoolgirl relationship crisis anime I'll crap my pants.

halo 2 and 3 should have been compressed into one game with levels like the halo 2 e3 2003 trailer with lots of different stuff happening at once, rather than long, drawn out boring levels. the events of the e3 2003 trailer took two whole freaking levels to get through. it would have been much better if they had just compressed the story


Nah, I was joking anyways. I mean, my tagline under my avatar is from a Japanese visual novel which was adapted into an anime. I'd be a hypocrite if I was insulting you seriously.

And yeah. Halo 2 had a rushed release. Even they admitted the campaign was cliffhanger'd, and not to mention I thought switching back and forth between Master Chief and The Arbiter in the campaign was pretty retarded. They tried so hard to make a good game and keep it fresh every time, but ended up making it so much worse. I love Halo 1 simply because it was revolutionary for it's time and was one of the best first person shooters to have come out. It saved the Xbox from it's otherwise inevitable destruction (ala the Dreamcast). But after that, it just started becoming a multiplayer-only game. Halo 3 had a little bit of a campaign in the beginning, but it started going downhill fast, and eventually was only worth the multiplayer, which the initial maps that released with Halo (pre- map pack releases) weren't that good really, with the exception of maybe The Pit. Didn't like most of the rest... Halo: Reach still has some pretty ugly maps too though. Boardwalk and Spire were both hideous or slayer matches, especially the latter.

Really, rather than another after another Halo game... I'm honestly looking forward to Portal 2, F.E.A.R. 3, hoping for a Half-Life 3, and wondering how good Duke Nukem Forever is going to be. I'm bored of Halo outside of the PC for the custom edition community. It has no appeal on Xbox to me anymore.


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 05:36 PM    Msg. 46 of 63       
Before I start, I'd like to also support that this guy is not a troll the least bit. You guys just take offense to everything and act like you're astounded to see someone being logical.

Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
it's not just the userbase. the halo games these days are rehashes of themselves, with a few minor tweaks to the weapons and a few new features .... having played the series since halo 1, the overall feel of the gameplay has not left; a feeling I now find bland and repetitive after all these years.
Understandable, not everyone likes the same stuff. Personally I like the slower-pace of Halo, and the games aren't entirely rehashes of themselves. From 1-3, the game advanced in nearly every front and had entirely new content. I'm surprised that if you say Halo is a rehash...what exactly do you consider Call of Duty to be?

Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
halo's first person animation system may be easy to mod, but it's very limited. you can't make special occasion animations, ie a light on, light off, secondary clip reload. often times some animations are "faked" like the cmt brg, which while still works, is a bit hacky .... pros: easy to mod, easy to understand animation sets. cons: terrible limitations, scaling issues, hacky.
Keywords that I believe I said: for its time. Obviously a 2000 engine is not going to have everything accessible compared to an engine 10 years later (today). In contrast to other games though, the system is no doubt the best [to what I can recall]. The fact that you can even "cheat" such an old engine into having things like the BRG, is quite a miraculous feat and not something that should be reason to call it "hacky." Originally there were light-on and light-off animations as well but they were disabled for whatever reason.
Edited by ODX on Nov 24, 2010 at 05:37 PM


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 07:06 PM    Msg. 47 of 63       
on the subject of cod, cod 1, 2 and 3 were basically rehashes. played them all, 2 is probably the best. 4 felt new and unique enough with all the new features and new type of gunplay, world at war was a decent blend of both sides. mw2 was horrible, overpowering gunplay with the stupid kill streak bonuses, and black ops had a unique story. treyarch haters be damned.

as far as halo's engine for it's time, yes it was decent for it's time, but what I said earlier still applies. at the time the first unreal engine, the quake engine and the half life one engine were available. still, these engines were a bit tricky to work with, with coding and all required. halo was easy to understand and simple to mod, no coding experience required.. when bluestreak was released, as much of a eula and games content usage violation as it may have been, the modding became a bit more dynamic. but that was, what, 2006?
Edited by HaloIsAHorribleGane on Nov 24, 2010 at 07:08 PM


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 07:11 PM    Msg. 48 of 63       
It's still the same engine.


d4rfnader
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Open mouth, insert sandwhich.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 07:33 PM    Msg. 49 of 63       
I will always stand by the fact that i think halo is the single best engine for particle systems and fp animation.


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 09:35 PM    Msg. 50 of 63       
>particle systems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1thLUxE8Mc0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he2QZzNpqDY

I hope to christ you mean the newer halo engines

>fp animations

the templates are easy enough to use
Edited by HaloIsAHorribleGane on Nov 24, 2010 at 09:37 PM


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:11 PM    Msg. 51 of 63       
Newer engines of course, whether it's Reach or Halo 3. Personally I loved Halo 3's particle systems, and Reach's are just as nice and eye-popping. In terms of how the actual engine works with them...no one knows except Bungie's artists.


d4rfnader
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Open mouth, insert sandwhich.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:15 PM    Msg. 52 of 63       
Yeah sorry for the particle system's i did mean reach and halo 3.


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:43 PM    Msg. 53 of 63       
we are talking about engine modability. coming in and saying reach and halo 3 have the best partical systems is off the topic


d4rfnader
Joined: Jul 16, 2010

Open mouth, insert sandwhich.


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 11:03 PM    Msg. 54 of 63       
lol you asked whether or not i meant the newer halo engines.

ontopic: since reach was a re-done engine i dunno how much of it we can get into ce, though i do think that all of the armor abilities are possible.
Edited by d4rfnader on Nov 24, 2010 at 11:05 PM


IcePhoenix
Joined: Sep 9, 2010

-Minor modeler-


Posted: Nov 24, 2010 11:43 PM    Msg. 55 of 63       
*post deleted by admin for rules violation
READ THE RULES:
http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=2979

Bypassed profanity filter
Edited by Dennis on Nov 25, 2010 at 01:04 AM


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Nov 25, 2010 10:05 AM    Msg. 56 of 63       
armor lock has already been done. seems like it'd be the toughest to do.. then again, I don't know anything about scripting.


MF Boom
Joined: Mar 5, 2007

I am the bone of my sword...


Posted: Nov 25, 2010 10:15 AM    Msg. 57 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: HaloIsAHorribleGane
armor lock has already been done. seems like it'd be the toughest to do.. then again, I don't know anything about scripting.


Nah. Technically, as an "ability", Jetpack would be the hardest. As a vehicle, it's not a problem. It's been made as a vehicle looong before Reach. But I don't think it's possible to make that into an ability. Also, it would take a lot of animation work, all custom I'm sure, to pull off "Evade". I'm pretty sure "Sprint" wouldn't sync properly (which is why the half-assed "double speed" powerup in Halo never came to fruition). And finally, the "Stalker" function has too much involved for it to work right in CE.

Some of them can be done with alternative methods, but none of them will function as armor abilities like they did in Reach. The engine's pretty good for how old of a game it is, but asking it to do something outside it's capabilities code-wise is silly.

Of course, I'm always welcome to be proven wrong.
Edited by MF Boom on Nov 25, 2010 at 10:16 AM


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Nov 25, 2010 11:34 AM    Msg. 58 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: MF Boom
...I'm pretty sure "Sprint" wouldn't sync properly (which is why the half-assed "double speed" powerup in Halo never came to fruition...


Whaddaya mean? CMT made some for A10 SPV2. Do they not work in multiplayer or something?
Edited by Echo77 on Nov 25, 2010 at 11:35 AM


MoooseGuy
Joined: Aug 10, 2008

I Approve This Message.


Posted: Nov 25, 2010 01:27 PM    Msg. 59 of 63       
In singleplayer, the double-speed powerup works fine.
In multiplayer, it's a different story.


IcePhoenix
Joined: Sep 9, 2010

-Minor modeler-


Posted: Nov 26, 2010 12:54 AM    Msg. 60 of 63       
The double speed powerup basically slows down everything else except you. Ofc it won't work in multiplayer, and wtf is a "Stalker" ability?


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Nov 26, 2010 01:25 AM    Msg. 61 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix
The double speed powerup basically slows down everything else except you. Ofc it won't work in multiplayer, and wtf is a "Stalker" ability?


Stalker is Active Camo with Radar Jammer, I think.

So is there not a way to make the double-speed powerup literally double your speed, rather than slowing everyone else down?


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Nov 26, 2010 10:05 AM    Msg. 62 of 63       
Nah, there is no way.
I think some of these abilities are possible with different animation 'stances'. You could script flashlight (or crouch, maybe) to change the stance of the player. You can add several stances in the animation tag, so perhaps we can have multiple player abilities for use in one map.
Sprint- make a running animation for sprint, in the stance "sprint". This should probably use crouch, because you can change the crouch speed. You can make new fp animations in an extra weapon that is temporarily given to the player with scripts, to make it look like you're sprinting.
Evade- make an evade animation, set it to its own stance "evade". Do the same thing for sprint with new animations and a temporary weapon.
Jetpack- Damage-effect, meh. Vehicle, meh. Best make it like I did my mancannons, with a launching animation as its own stance.
Camo- arby camo.
Hologram- Easy. use AI. There's no way for this to sync right unless you somehow made the hologram a vehicle without collision.


MF Boom
Joined: Mar 5, 2007

I am the bone of my sword...


Posted: Nov 28, 2010 11:02 PM    Msg. 63 of 63       
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77
Quote: --- Original message by: IcePhoenix
The double speed powerup basically slows down everything else except you. Ofc it won't work in multiplayer, and wtf is a "Stalker" ability?


Stalker is Active Camo with Radar Jammer, I think.

So is there not a way to make the double-speed powerup literally double your speed, rather than slowing everyone else down?


Nope. Double-speed wouldn't sync as far as I know. I've tried to figure out a way to do it outside of changing crouch speeds and animations, but as a powerup, it wouldn't work. I mostly gave up on this idea after realizing that as old a game as it is, despite the fact you can still do a lot with it, it does indeed have it's limits, and I can only stretch them so much.

And, Stalker is a collection of things. Active camoflauge (which is limited to that, when moving, you're more visible [poor camo], but if you're standing still, you're completely invisible [good camo]), radar jammer (affects -everybody- in the map, allied or enemy, including yourself), and a complete mute of all sounds around you (which only applies to you).

 
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