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Author Topic: No one finishes anything on this site. (67 messages, Page 1 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

iHalo
Joined: Dec 5, 2009

Modeling ::Royal Carribean's Oasis of the Seas::


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 05:58 PM    Msg. 1 of 67       
Seriously...

Hence the 20 reach mods, 1500 halo 3 maps, over a million weapons/tags/vehicles...

Why do you insist showing it off, or even saying you have it, when you KNOW you won't finish/release it. You want attention, and you get it. Do not waste 8 pages writing a post then, not keeping your word.

I would release Guardian (with permission) if I sense I had a legit community to release it to...
How many times has *insert most annoying hm member here* has stareted community projects and never EVER finished them.

I have seen over 100 projects started since I came here, last time I rmeber 2 were actualy finished. Spv1 and Lumoria, which Lumoria is still uncomplete, and CMT quit on spv2
Edited by iHalo on Apr 27, 2011 at 06:02 PM


bourrin33
Joined: Oct 19, 2009

HEK not installed tho


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:01 PM    Msg. 2 of 67       
Because many people spread too much in their WIPs.

Join iMT


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:05 PM    Msg. 3 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Daniel
That statement is incorrect. Just look at the sheer amount of content released so far. However what is "release worthy" is subject to one's own opinion.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

I despise recreations of crappy content, however like Daniel said, that is my opinion!


SeL
Joined: Dec 15, 2010

twitter.com/TeamFalldog


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:10 PM    Msg. 4 of 67       
revelations

sympathy

well, I usually finish my projects :lol:


iHalo
Joined: Dec 5, 2009

Modeling ::Royal Carribean's Oasis of the Seas::


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:22 PM    Msg. 5 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: SeL
revelations

sympathy

well, I usually finish my projects :lol:


True, I loved Revelations with a passion, but I am directing toward projects as in campaigns or total conversion. Multi level projects (not as in map packs)


MatthewDratt
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

HaloCE3.com MattDratt.com


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:27 PM    Msg. 6 of 67       
Because people have high egos


UnevenElefant5
Joined: May 3, 2008

she/her this fag bashes back


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:39 PM    Msg. 7 of 67       
Because people lose motivation, life gets in the way, their computer has problems, etc. Not everything is under their control. Sometimes they just have to re-evaluate how important Halo is in the long run, and choose accordingly.


Dwood
Joined: Oct 23, 2007

Judge Ye Therefore


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:41 PM    Msg. 8 of 67       
Because the people who are good at making maps and follow through with this want to get a job, and the mindset is: "You don't get a job by making maps in Halo, so let's go to a better engine."


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:43 PM    Msg. 9 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: MatthewDratt
Because people have high egos
Yeah. I only do halo for teh lulz, not looking to get a job doing this or anything.


XlzQwerty1
Joined: Aug 6, 2009


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:49 PM    Msg. 10 of 67       
Not like Valhalla and sandtrap won't be released, of course they will be released, in due time. We all have lives, except for some people on the forums.


AGLion
Joined: Jun 29, 2010

- Animator... suck it -


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 06:53 PM    Msg. 11 of 67       
And you making this obvious assumption helps the situation how?


SlappyThePirate
Joined: Aug 24, 2009

You are irritating, I'll release nothing


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 07:14 PM    Msg. 12 of 67       
Because it's true? I mean, I feel the same way ihalo feels, and the makers of those two maps don't have soupa-egos. I personally 100% guarantee that those two maps will be finished, not taking my random and unexpected death into account.
If I did, I would say 95%.


ally
Joined: Jun 23, 2010

Aye Ready


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 07:27 PM    Msg. 13 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: bourrin33
Because many people spread too much in their WIPs.

Join iMT


what's iMT?


Skyancez3o4
Joined: Apr 6, 2010

I miss CE


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 07:29 PM    Msg. 14 of 67       
I don't get anything done because I don't do anything :P

But yea, we don't really take this too serious as I suppose most of us use our free time making maps or just to kill time. I doubt any of us are dedicated to making maps for halo other than bungie.


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 07:49 PM    Msg. 15 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: SlappyThePirate
Because it's true? I mean, I feel the same way ihalo feels, and the makers of those two maps don't have soupa-egos. I personally 100% guarantee that those two maps will be finished, not taking my random and unexpected death into account.
If I did, I would say 95%.

I have to disagree for one of the makers of those maps


kirby_422
Joined: Jan 22, 2006

Apparently public enemy number 1?


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:02 PM    Msg. 16 of 67       
Come on, I finish like 1/5 projects I work on lol. Besides, this summer im planning on finishing all my old projects (and when I say that, I mean ill probably make them almost finished, revive the dead topics, then go watch anime instead)

And if its just small setups for people, I think I've always finished those (of course, I may ignore the persons request for like half a year first (See work on hornet that can strafe, and fly up and down), like I told someone I'd have some tags finished up to give to them tomorrow, but instead im watching the rest of clannad lol)


iHalo
Joined: Dec 5, 2009

Modeling ::Royal Carribean's Oasis of the Seas::


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:03 PM    Msg. 17 of 67       
Not to be trolling, I realize this topic name is a bit b*tchy but... I'd liek to see some progress...

There's nothing new... not even rips or copied ideas... just nothing, not even bloodgulch mods...


Noble
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

"Well if it isn't the big cheese!"


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:11 PM    Msg. 18 of 67       
Hey brah, I've been playing Reach so much I haven't even bothered on finishing some old models >.>. well, I guess I might as well.


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:23 PM    Msg. 19 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: iHalo
Not to be trolling, I realize this topic name is a bit b*tchy but... I'd liek to see some progress...

There's nothing new... not even rips or copied ideas... just nothing, not even bloodgulch mods...


uhh

im pretty sure people are still making things! youre not looking hard enough, obviously.


teh lag
Joined: May 6, 2008


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:25 PM    Msg. 20 of 67       
Attention is likely part of it but I think a main problem is this - a saying that I've seen a lot of in some form or other:

Once you've done the first 90% of a project, you still have to do the other 90%.

People tend to underestimate what constitutes a "finished" product - it's very easy to hack together something that produces pretty screenshots or even a gameplay video. It's much, much harder to do something that has enough novelty such that it remains fun after the first/second/third/n-th playthrough, much less something that has a decent level of polish or the "feel" that the author wants. It's not easy to know what constitutes "done" or "50% done" or "75% done". I don't know how to solve this problem other than with experience, but if people are conscious of it they might be able to set more realistic goals for themselves or be better prepared for a long-term undertaking.

People have an equal tendency to jump the gun and get excited about being able to produce those pretty screenshots or videos. It's not necessarily something that's reprehensible; even I get excited and want to show people when I've done something I think is cool. I feel that iHalo is right to an extent though - a fair part of it is probably a want for attention. A great way to get people to like you is to post a lot of cool-looking work - much harder is being able to follow through on it. That said, I don't think it's really an issue of malice or deliberately misleading people. Sure, some people like to just show off the work they've done for no reason other than to make people think "wow, that person is cool and talented!" (honestly though I think we all do this to one level or another). Despite that it's unlikely that all, or even most, of the unfinished projects here were started up for no reason other than to boost their founders' sense of self-worth. A big issue (besides just wanting attention) I think is being able to know what volume of work constitutes what level of fanfare. If all you've done is rip a biped model from H3 and rig it to H1 bones, maybe don't make a big deal out of it. If people were less antsy about letting the world know about their ideas and early work then we'd see far less "unfinished" projects because more people would realize that they're being overambitious and not bother getting people hyped up (and hyping others up) about something that won't realistically be completed.

Of course, some projects like CMT SPV2 end up falling apart despite what appears to be a pretty solid base of contributors and content. In these cases I still think over-ambition is a factor: with now over a year of looking back I think we at CMT really bit off more than we could chew, at least with respect to how focused our team could be. Maybe if we had all been able to coordinate better we could have pulled off a slightly more graceful end product than "here are some old betas and tags, sorry guyz". The lesson to be taken from this, then, is that a project that oversteps the abilities of its contributors is just as vulnerable as a project that was announced prematurely. Perhaps even more so, since you can always keep an early project unannounced and let it quietly die away, while a behemoth like SPV2 is pretty much guaranteed to be unceremonious if it fails.

Lastly... people just get bored. This is kind of related to my first two points but I'd like to expand on it some. Remember that this is just a hobby or, at the very best, practice for working in the industry. We're in this because we want to do it. Someone who wants to put in "both" 90%s of work is going to need a lot of dedication and planning to see their project completed, and a lot of people just aren't read to give that. A lot of people also (like I said earlier) underestimate just how daunting that work can be and say "yeah, we can put in X and Y and Z features - it'll take a week to make!". The problem of course is that what takes a week to make can take a month or more to perfect and integrate with everything else.

In the end, I think a small modding community like ours has two main outcomes that can be expected of a project if it is to be released in a reasonable amount of time (or ever):

1) An unambitious project with lots of polish
2) An ambitious project with questionable amounts of polish
(And, I guess a third - an unambitious project with questionable amounts of polish - but let's try not to think about that since this is just your average poop-quality mod.)

A well-polished and ambitious project is likely going to take a long time and its developers should be prepared for that and plan accordingly: don't announce it prematurely, make sure you're willing to put in that kind of effort, and above all make sure you know what you're doing.

(I am currently eating every last one of these words as I think about my plans to clean up the CMT tagset, release a new beta of the playable Elites, and finish editing my FP animation tutorial. Oh well; it happens to all of us.)

And now an addendum: I find it a bit disheartening that my explanation pretty much wrote off the artist/creator's vision as a footnote in the beginning... That probably says something about what I've come to expect from the modding experience. Vision is important and if you're a perfectionist you can find yourself undoing all your hard work because it's not what you want... regardless of what anyone else feels. Definitely once you reach a certain level of quality/competence a project can easily be held back unnecessarily in the polish phase, as its creator(s) try more and more to get their implementation to match their vision. Here I don't know what to say: on one hand nobody knows what a project should be better than its creator, but nobody knows what's "good enough" worse. The creator is significantly inclined to not stop working until the original vision is met, which might be impossible - of course, this is where beta testing and outside opinions come in, and when decisions might need to be made for the author.
Edited by teh lag on Apr 27, 2011 at 08:54 PM


iHalo
Joined: Dec 5, 2009

Modeling ::Royal Carribean's Oasis of the Seas::


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:35 PM    Msg. 21 of 67       
I actually read all that, I appreciate the post, and I agree..

Yet after reading that post, I can be a bit contradicting to my post. My main project Aero, was never finished due to lack of content contributing, and the hatred of rips. But It can fall down from almost all aspects you listed.


DarkHalo003
Joined: Mar 10, 2008

All ARs Need Green Little Buttons.


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:42 PM    Msg. 22 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: UnevenElefant5
Because people lose motivation, life gets in the way, their computer has problems, etc. Not everything is under their control. Sometimes they just have to re-evaluate how important Halo is in the long run, and choose accordingly.

This. So much this. And inspiration is what makes art good; if there is no motivation or inspiration, then it turns out dull and generally isn't worth releasing in the first place. In other words, why release something that isn't finished, isn't what the artist had in mind, and just ended up being a half-assed job because the creator released it by demand of another individual or community? These reasons are why I haven't released half of my junk: it's either not like I want it, there are important aspects missing, or there just isn't any motivation to finish it.

Now is this an excuse? Definitely not. But is it a reason? Definitely yes. I'm working on my stuff more now, with a new computer, and I honestly hope I can/will finish this bunch of content that's been collecting dust for several months currently.
Edited by DarkHalo003 on Apr 27, 2011 at 08:44 PM


TauSigmaNova
Joined: Jan 31, 2011

If love is blind, I guess I'll buy myself a cane


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:47 PM    Msg. 23 of 67       
i suppose i bit off a bit more than i could chew with my campaign, but higuy helped me realize wehat i need to do.


strangebrew
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

user gone


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 08:56 PM    Msg. 24 of 67       
people do plenty for halo ce,not everything gets posted on the forum.
also remember a lot people are new to this forum and don't know how to model,how this game engine works,how sapien works,how guerilla works,and how tool works.
for these they have to learn more the be able to make content.
now i get the impression your mtalking a bout member who know how to do all that and just don't release what they made.(that's choice).
and reach,a lot of people will be busy playing that and other games or simply just ain't got the time for halo anymore.your thread is pretty pointless because it's not as if it's going to change things anyway.

halo ce's community is what it is.
just be happy some people do release.


ally
Joined: Jun 23, 2010

Aye Ready


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 09:04 PM    Msg. 25 of 67       
quote:Every 10 minutes I spend working away on fixing some insignificant little detail helps me feel like I've improved the level by +0.5%. :(

i had to go and look up ivory tower to see who you were there lol.
having high standards is good :)


Dwood
Joined: Oct 23, 2007

Judge Ye Therefore


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 09:09 PM    Msg. 26 of 67       
f5 on forums, who posted in the irc? oh someone messaged me on xfire. Oh cra- someone said something WRONG on the internet??? MUST FIX!

Oh, wai- FF Descent, what you doing loaded up in guerilla? And why are the grunt sounds open??? oh yeaaaaaaaa....
*work for 30 seconds*
rinse,
repeat.


LMT Heretic
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

There are mysteries, that should remain hidden...


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 09:17 PM    Msg. 27 of 67       
well i think that the ones who dont release their maps is because they think that they are going to make them better or it is just incomplete and dont see what is the problem with the map... a complement something that is important but they dont get or know what is and the one who do release something are not seen or are put aside or just ignored

visit my topic and download the maps please
http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=37286


Corvette19
Joined: Feb 27, 2007


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 10:43 PM    Msg. 28 of 67       
Better things to see and people to do. Nowadays your work will go unplayed.


LMT Heretic
Joined: Feb 18, 2010

There are mysteries, that should remain hidden...


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 10:54 PM    Msg. 29 of 67       
yeah people should search more in the forum to download new maps , new tags, that could be or contain something useful maybe a biped or maps that are fun to play etc instead of wait until a map is available they should make there own maps and share them or download maps of other maker instead of wait until a important map comes
that way the forum maps wouldnt be so unplayed and the maps would (maybe) get more faster to the website
or at least they are download by a few people that way the people would get maps and tags much more easier


Spartan_094
Joined: Jan 8, 2008


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 10:58 PM    Msg. 30 of 67       
I could say Sandtrap v2 is canceled due to the fact I worked on nothing because I prefer to have a better education and job before a good recreated sandtrap.

But eventually I'll finish the major things and it will be released, along with Valhalla by slappy I think


Xoronatus
Joined: Dec 6, 2010

Taking a break


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 10:59 PM    Msg. 31 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: ally
quote:
having high standards is good :)


We need people with high gameplay standards. There is too much poor content. If you're going to make a bloodgulch mod, don't make it 3 elites that stand in the middle of the map and stare at the ground and don't do anything. At least make it a balanced marines vs covenant battle or something.
Edited by Xoronatus on Apr 27, 2011 at 10:59 PM


Volteer55
Joined: Jul 11, 2010


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 11:17 PM    Msg. 32 of 67       
im working on a detachable turret (n.=.n)


HaloIsAHorribleGane
Joined: Nov 9, 2010

I'd rather play yahtzee


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 11:29 PM    Msg. 33 of 67       
an open source sandtrap classic would have been fine, let people do whatever the hell they want with it from there


UnevenElefant5
Joined: May 3, 2008

she/her this fag bashes back


Posted: Apr 27, 2011 11:49 PM    Msg. 34 of 67       
Just want to say one more thing: Something I noticed over my 3 year span of Halo modding, everyone starts off full of ideas and inspiration, but lacks the ability to create their visions. If they get around to learning how, they realize how hard it really is, and then it takes a long time for their skills to be up to par with what they envisioned. It's taken me 3 years to become a decent modeler, and I'm still not happy with my work, and I still have a long way to go. But the more people have to hone their skills, and practice, the less motivation and inspiration they have.

I can tell you that when I first started Halo modding, there was nothing more I wanted than to ride a blind wolf around in Halo. Now, three years later, I know how to do it, I know I can, but I just don't have the motivation or inspiration to do it because I know it will take a lot of work, more than I believe is appropriate for a gimmicky feature in a nearly 10 year old game engine.
Edited by UnevenElefant5 on Apr 27, 2011 at 11:49 PM


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Apr 28, 2011 12:05 AM    Msg. 35 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Spartan_094
I could say Sandtrap v2 is canceled due to the fact I worked on nothing because I prefer to have a better education and job before a good recreated sandtrap.

But eventually I'll finish the major things and it will be released, along with Valhalla by slappy I think


We should.. Nvm, I forgot we already had plans n stuff. You already know what I'm talking about.

Sandtrap is not canceled, but it's not moving much. I'd consider releasing it as-is, but like I said, we got plans.

 
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