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Author Topic: The Longsword needs to be fixed. (33 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 06:19 PM    Msg. 1 of 33       
I think the longsword is one of the most awesome vehicles you can fly in Custom Edition, but I think it could use a few improvements to make it more balanced.

1. Remove the nuke: People do nothing but teamkill spawns with it

2. Beef up its defenses: Come on, the longsword was meant to fight in freaking SPACE. You expect me to believe a few sniper shots and it's down? Pfft. Make it something more to be feared instead of just a giant sniper target.

3. Manual open door: If the crew of a longsword needs to be deployed quickly, the pilot should be able to steady the ship and open the door via button without having to get out. This would allow for far quicker and more efficient troop deploys.

4. Increase the speed: The longsword shouldn't be slow and lumbering, have you seen longswords in the halo games? They're FAST. Increase the speed substantially or at least add some kind of boost function.

If these improvements were added to the longsword it would make it a far more balanced and useful vehicle. What's your opinion? Feel free to add to this list.
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 16, 2012 at 06:21 PM
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 16, 2012 at 09:36 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 06:27 PM    Msg. 2 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: waffles
your talking about the one on coldsnap/hugeass? thats not the only longsword in hce, the stock one doesnt have a nuke...

also dont believe there is a call or function to make the door open on command.
but most of this stuff could be done in like 3 minutes. just value edits.


Oh, I see, well the nuke was a pretty crappy addition. No one uses it for it's intended purpose, they'd rather ruin spawns with it. And yeah, I've tried every button on the keyboard, there is no button to manually open the bay door, that really makes the vehicle highly inefficient at dropping off any passengers, who really can't do much but sit around inside otherwise.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 07:53 PM    Msg. 3 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah

I think the longsword is one of the most awesome vehicles you can fly in Custom Edition, but I think it could use a few improvements to make it more balanced.

1. Remove the nuke: People do nothing but teamkill spawns with it
I could agree with this. I'd be more in favor of a carpet bomb or heavy cannon feature.
2. Beef up it's defenses: Come on, the longsword was meant to fight in freaking SPACE. You expect me to believe a few sniper shots and it's down? Pfft. Make it something more to be feared instead of just a giant sniper target.
This too. The Pelican has more armor than the Longsword.
3. Manual open door: If the crew of a longsword needs to be deployed quickly, the pilot should be able to steady the ship and open the door via button without having to get out. This would allow for far quicker and more efficient troop deploys.
If you did this, you would have to give up either the primary or secondary armaments of the Longsword, I think.
4. Increase the speed: The longsword shouldn't be slow and lumbering, have you seen longswords in the halo games? They're FAST. Increase the speed substantially or at least add some kind of boost function.
They're also giant, and not very maneuverable. A substantially increased speed would make it much more difficult to fly in close-quarters, where the craft tends to require a bit more finesse.
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 16, 2012 at 06:21 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 09:54 PM    Msg. 4 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah

I think the longsword is one of the most awesome vehicles you can fly in Custom Edition, but I think it could use a few improvements to make it more balanced.

1. Remove the nuke: People do nothing but teamkill spawns with it
I could agree with this. I'd be more in favor of a carpet bomb or heavy cannon feature.
I like the carpet bomb idea, sounds more like a payload a longsword would carry
2. Beef up it's defenses: Come on, the longsword was meant to fight in freaking SPACE. You expect me to believe a few sniper shots and it's down? Pfft. Make it something more to be feared instead of just a giant sniper target.
This too. The Pelican has more armor than the Longsword.
Yeah, in fact, the pelican has TOO MUCH armor. You can fire at a pelican all match and it won't go down
3. Manual open door: If the crew of a longsword needs to be deployed quickly, the pilot should be able to steady the ship and open the door via button without having to get out. This would allow for far quicker and more efficient troop deploys.
If you did this, you would have to give up either the primary or secondary armaments of the Longsword, I think.
You sure? I've seen vehicles with bay doors you can toggle via button and still have primary and secondary weapons.
4. Increase the speed: The longsword shouldn't be slow and lumbering, have you seen longswords in the halo games? They're FAST. Increase the speed substantially or at least add some kind of boost function.
They're also giant, and not very maneuverable. A substantially increased speed would make it much more difficult to fly in close-quarters, where the craft tends to require a bit more finesse.
Yeah, but the longsword is by no means made for close quarters, it's a starfighter and a bomber. With some secondary use as a quick means to insert people into enemy territory.
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 16, 2012 at 06:21 PM

Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 16, 2012 at 09:55 PM


Pepzee
Joined: Sep 9, 2010


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 09:58 PM    Msg. 5 of 33       
I'm not sure if anyone will ever do this but...

Instead of a nuke or bombs I would like to see napalm or some sort of fire instead, I think that would look cool, I'm not sure if that's possible.

I support the rest of this idea though and hopefully one day it'll get done.
Edited by Pepzee on Apr 16, 2012 at 09:59 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 10:06 PM    Msg. 6 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Pepzee

I'm not sure if anyone will ever do this but...

Instead of a nuke or bombs I would like to see napalm or some sort of fire instead, I think that would look cool, I'm not sure if that's possible.

I support the rest of this idea though and hopefully one day it'll get done.
Edited by Pepzee on Apr 16, 2012 at 09:59 PM

Maybe if we did some sort of extinction revamp, the second longsword in the hangar could have napalm bombs. This is getting me pumped, we actually should work on an extinction revamp, fixing everything that was wrong on the original extinction. Imagine it guys, an extinction where teams don't haphazardly spawn in both bases, where the covenant vehicles don't suck ass (Seraph especially, *shudders*), where longswords are awesome and useful and jets don't have cheap-ass homing missiles. My god, it would be wonderful.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 10:19 PM    Msg. 7 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Pepzee

I'm not sure if anyone will ever do this but...

Instead of a nuke or bombs I would like to see napalm or some sort of fire instead, I think that would look cool, I'm not sure if that's possible.

I support the rest of this idea though and hopefully one day it'll get done.
Edited by Pepzee on Apr 16, 2012 at 09:59 PM


RPG Beta 6.2's Longsword replaced the nuke with napalm.

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5250


Pepzee
Joined: Sep 9, 2010


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 11:12 PM    Msg. 8 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77
RPG Beta 6.2's Longsword replaced the nuke with napalm.

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=5250

I don't see one in that map. I just went ion and used "cheat_all_vehicles" and there weren't longswords appearing, but maybe I missed something.


Ro0ster
Joined: Jan 21, 2008

is a rooster


Posted: Apr 16, 2012 11:22 PM    Msg. 9 of 33       
I think the manual door open can be done via firing animations.


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 01:36 AM    Msg. 10 of 33       
We should get a team together and just totally revamp Extinction. I think we could do it.


Jaz
Joined: Mar 21, 2010

[Insert sarcastic comment here]


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 01:50 AM    Msg. 11 of 33       
Ender did it singlehandedly. Can't be that hard for a full team to do it?


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 03:04 AM    Msg. 12 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jaz
Ender did it singlehandedly. Can't be that hard for a full team to do it?

Does this mean you're in on Extinction 2.0? :)


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 05:03 AM    Msg. 13 of 33       
Hmm, good ideas. I want to make this, so maybe I could look into them things.

(The ship)

I really like it, I might look into that today infact, maybe.


LegionofShadows
Joined: Jul 10, 2011

The Red Pill is strong in this one.


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 05:12 AM    Msg. 14 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: anonymous_2009
Hmm, good ideas. I want to make this, so maybe I could look into them things.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63494571/006.jpg
(The ship)

I really like it, I might look into that today infact, maybe.


...

...

How the Dennis is that on topic? All I see is a giant forerunner structure. You hiding something from me boi?(Unless if you're a gal. You hiding something from me, gal?)

Perhaps a sort of cluster bomb weapon, where you fire it, and explosive stuff goes everywhere. Downwards, of course.


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 05:35 AM    Msg. 15 of 33       
Thats human... not forerunner. And bottom right, that big ass ship...


LegionofShadows
Joined: Jul 10, 2011

The Red Pill is strong in this one.


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 06:12 AM    Msg. 16 of 33       
You try to recreate one of the most popular maps in Halo Custom Edition by yourself. You try creating all the new tags necessary to pull it off.

You will be respected if you manage that.

Though seriously, where is the Longsword in that picture? And don't tell me that triangle thing is it. That looks nothing like a longsword.

Unless its in Halo 4... ergh.


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 06:59 AM    Msg. 17 of 33       
Quote:
Hmm, good ideas. I want to make this, so maybe I could look into them things.

I never said it was a longsword... And triangle thing? Imo that looks better than the longsword, and it's concept art that didn't get in the game. For Halo Reach I think.

I think that ship would be a nice replacement or addition to a longsword.


hoboscience
Joined: Apr 22, 2011


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 12:26 PM    Msg. 18 of 33       
I find this conversation intereresting because I am working on a vehicle that has a hatch that I would like to have controlled...open or closed....controlled by a passenger preferably. How could I achieve this?


Jaz
Joined: Mar 21, 2010

[Insert sarcastic comment here]


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 12:30 PM    Msg. 19 of 33       
*Coughs loudly after seeing the 'PROPERTY OF MICROSOFT' symbol on Bungie concept art*

Ahem! Sorry, got a cold.

Anyway, that ship looks pretty cool. If somebody with talent created it, it might look really nice.

Looks like it'd be hard to get looking nice without OS though. It's appearance seems to be only great because it's shiny and the reflections are realistic. Without normal maps, I think it might just look like a big block ship with triangles stuck on the back?



Edited by Jaz on Apr 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 02:09 PM    Msg. 20 of 33       
It isn't really shiny.. the longsword doesn't have normals and that looks okay...


Petera275
Joined: Dec 7, 2010

Some things just don't work...


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 03:12 PM    Msg. 21 of 33       
Couldn't the manual door opening be done like all of the cheap cool tricks? With flashlight? I mean, there was that one map where it was used on a pelican to toggle whether or not it burns, and there was this other one with a tank that toggles invisibility.


Jaz
Joined: Mar 21, 2010

[Insert sarcastic comment here]


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 03:31 PM    Msg. 22 of 33       
I think Sever lag's gone inactive, and unfortunately, I didn't listen to him when he told me how he did all his cool tricks with the burning pelican. Sorry :(



Edited by Jaz on Apr 17, 2012 at 03:31 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 05:29 PM    Msg. 23 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Tiel
Needs to be a lot faster, I think :D

The 'fighter' in the name isn't for nothing, ya know. It's an Interceptor as well. Come to think about it, if you do assemble a team to remake the popular maps I call Coldsnap. LS dogfights would be so win.


Yeah, as they are in the current popular maps Longswords are less "Fast, deadly, and sleek" and more "Slow, lumbering, sniper target"
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 17, 2012 at 05:29 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 05:58 PM    Msg. 24 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Tiel
God, I hate that. I'm trying to make my way across the map and all someone needs to do is spend a clip on me and *dead*. That's utter crap.


Exactly, the thing is meant to be able to go into space and fight, I'm fairly sure it has some thick-a** armor and projectile-resistant glass.

Also, I hate how the jet and the seraph are supposed to be equally matched when the guy in the jet can lock a missile on me from light-years away and I can't even hit things at point-blanc in the seraph because the projectiles crisscross. Who the HELL thought that was a good idea?


Spartan314
Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 07:12 PM    Msg. 25 of 33       
Well obviously, you can't make it too protective though. You won't have space fighting vehicles fighting on Earth and expect to have a same effect. Surely they would've been designed differently, to have two variants of the longsword.


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 07:56 PM    Msg. 26 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah
We should get a team together and just totally revamp Extinction. I think we could do it.


I was going to try this once, but I never actually get around to finishing things...

Even lacking any sort of groundbreaking innovations or custom tags, you could improve a lot simply by balancing everything. Only include weapons that serve specific roles and fill a particular niche, as well as a similar counterpart for the opposing faction (i.e. sniper rifle for UNSC, beam rifle for Covenant). Same for vehicles (I'd suggest a Hornet or Sparrowhawk with traits of the jet from the original Extinction, as well as a similarly modified Banshee for the Covenant. The Banshee model would correct the Seraph's habit of criss-crossed beams).

The human side seems to have an advantage in terms of base layout, as well, being equipped with an armory, motor pool, hangar, and numerous other rooms. The Covenant side would need similar options.
Edited by Echo77 on Apr 17, 2012 at 08:00 PM


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 17, 2012 08:37 PM    Msg. 27 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: Spartan314
Well obviously, you can't make it too protective though. You won't have space fighting vehicles fighting on Earth and expect to have a same effect. Surely they would've been designed differently, to have two variants of the longsword.


Hopefully you get my point though, the Longsword is severely under-armored for the jobs it was meant to do, it takes very little abuse before you succumb to enemy fire. Compare this to the Pelican on extinction next time you play, the Pelican is so over-armored you can stay in it all match and not die once. There needs to be more of a balance.


Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77

Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah
We should get a team together and just totally revamp Extinction. I think we could do it.


I was going to try this once, but I never actually get around to finishing things...

Even lacking any sort of groundbreaking innovations or custom tags, you could improve a lot simply by balancing everything. Only include weapons that serve specific roles and fill a particular niche, as well as a similar counterpart for the opposing faction (i.e. sniper rifle for UNSC, beam rifle for Covenant). Same for vehicles (I'd suggest a Hornet or Sparrowhawk with traits of the jet from the original Extinction, as well as a similarly modified Banshee for the Covenant. The Banshee model would correct the Seraph's habit of criss-crossed beams).

The human side seems to have an advantage in terms of base layout, as well, being equipped with an armory, motor pool, hangar, and numerous other rooms. The Covenant side would need similar options.
Edited by Echo77 on Apr 17, 2012 at 08:00 PM


Also, it would be nice if both teams didn't haphazardly spawn in both bases during team slayer. Some games are unplayable because of the rampant fighting going on in both bases.
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 17, 2012 at 08:42 PM
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 17, 2012 at 08:43 PM


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 12:28 PM    Msg. 28 of 33       
You don't need a team for 1 vehicle...


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 04:58 PM    Msg. 29 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah
We should get a team together and just totally revamp Extinction. I think we could do it.


I started working on that. See my thread:

http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=33513

Note that I'm stuck on portalling and invisible geometry. Nevertheless, I share all your concerns about the existing rendition of Extinction. My project was geared at making a sexy multiplayer map on a large scale with bountiful weapon and vehicle palettes that were balanced. A Longsword that is more of an air superiority fighter than a team-killing noobmobile is on the list, along with a down-armored Pelican.

One day, I WILL finish the dang thing.


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 05:23 PM    Msg. 30 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
Quote: --- Original message by: JimDaRulah
We should get a team together and just totally revamp Extinction. I think we could do it.


I started working on that. See my thread:

http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=33513

Note that I'm stuck on portalling and invisible geometry. Nevertheless, I share all your concerns about the existing rendition of Extinction. My project was geared at making a sexy multiplayer map on a large scale with bountiful weapon and vehicle palettes that were balanced. A Longsword that is more of an air superiority fighter than a team-killing noobmobile is on the list, along with a down-armored Pelican.

One day, I WILL finish the dang thing.


But your map seems to have a different layout than extinction. I think the majority of us want to improve upon the current map, not changing the layout and such.

On a side note, I think the wasp would be an amazing jet replacement for the human base, not to mention it would look more in theme with everything else.

http://hce.halomaps.org/index.cfm?fid=1616
Edited by JimDaRulah on Apr 18, 2012 at 05:26 PM


CAG Gonzo
Joined: Apr 2, 2009

Retreat? Hell! We just got here!


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 10:01 PM    Msg. 31 of 33       
If you are interested in helping me, read the last few pages of the thread so you know what's going on and can determine if you are capable of assisting. I have no compunctions against help.


anonymous_2009
Joined: Jun 13, 2009


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 10:15 PM    Msg. 32 of 33       
I might make a completely new "longsword" or whatever that vehicle is called in the concept art I posted is called. When I can be bothered.


JimDaRulah
Joined: Mar 26, 2012

It's been a while


Posted: Apr 18, 2012 10:33 PM    Msg. 33 of 33       
Quote: --- Original message by: CAG Gonzo
If you are interested in helping me, read the last few pages of the thread so you know what's going on and can determine if you are capable of assisting. I have no compunctions against help.


First thing I would suggest is going back to the basics. No need to completely revamp the map, only improve/swap out what we already have

 

 
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