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Author Topic: [WIP] ChBgt909 Unnamed map 01 (682 messages, Page 1 of 20)
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ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 04:27 PM    Msg. 1 of 682       
Hello guys, well i'm gonna be brief lol

i'm making this new map, but it's way too far from being complete (i don't even have a name as some of you could notice lol), well the concept will be forest-like environment with many forerunner structures (good-looking this time i hope :P) scattered around the place, the terrain will have more features unlike my previous maps, which means that the uvw mapping method i used for core and imposing will be difficult here and thus won't be used, here are some pictures where i'm gonna point some things out. hope you like it, and give me honest feedback plz ;)


Overview of the map:




Close up of some details of the terrain






Tunnel in the middle of the map, you can either pass through the tunnel or top area, (notice size of map compared to the player and a warthog)





Cave-like area, the circular areas without faces are where rock columns will be created






This is NOT a lake, this area will have exposed metal blending with the ground and there's gonna be an structure there



killzone64
Joined: Jun 9, 2010

Mostly active on discord


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 04:49 PM    Msg. 2 of 682       
looks great so far, i lake the layout. just one thing, will you make better bases this time? the ones in core had issues with being too open and were way too small.


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 04:57 PM    Msg. 3 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: killzone64
looks great so far, i lake the layout. just one thing, will you make better bases this time? the ones in core had issues with being too open and were way too small.


that's one of my objectives for this map haha, even if it takes me longer i'll make sure to make them right


SilentJacket
Joined: Jun 9, 2012

-Did I miss something?-


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:01 PM    Msg. 4 of 682       
wrecked covvy ship please?


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:11 PM    Msg. 5 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: SilentJacket
wrecked covvy ship please?


i'm sorry man but i don't see that happening :/ the layout of this map wasn't made for that


SilentJacket
Joined: Jun 9, 2012

-Did I miss something?-


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:26 PM    Msg. 6 of 682       
I mean as an aesthetic, like hanging over one of the cliff walls, with sparks and smoke occasionally coming from it


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:32 PM    Msg. 7 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: SilentJacket
I mean as an aesthetic, like hanging over one of the cliff walls, with sparks and smoke occasionally coming from it


ohh, well i can do that haha yeah, let me just find the right model to add it (as i'm not good modeling covenant stuff... i can try tho)


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:36 PM    Msg. 8 of 682       
You need to work with your cliffs alot more. Cliffs aren't nice and curvy. Rocks, which are also cliffs, are jagged pointing, and hard. While there is some smooth parts of rocks that bend, they are often complemented by a sharp jagged and flat wall. Take a look at some previous bsp's (a30) or even some real reference pictures when making your cliffs. I'd also recommend using the cut tool to create polygons and the collapse tool to collapse vertices together and then use soft selection on your ground to make that nice and smooth (and especially hilly!) for your grassy forest environment.


SilentJacket
Joined: Jun 9, 2012

-Did I miss something?-


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:39 PM    Msg. 9 of 682       
the tops usually are, due to being worn down by the elements.


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 3, 2013 05:44 PM    Msg. 10 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy
You need to work with your cliffs alot more. Cliffs aren't nice and curvy. Rocks, which are also cliffs, are jagged pointing, and hard. While there is some smooth parts of rocks that bend, they are often complemented by a sharp jagged and flat wall. Take a look at some previous bsp's (a30) or even some real reference pictures when making your cliffs. I'd also recommend using the cut tool to create polygons and the collapse tool to collapse vertices together and then use soft selection on your ground to make that nice and smooth (and especially hilly!) for your grassy forest environment.


yeah there are some areas where the cliff walls are not right, but some areas look good but the angle of the pics are not making justice and also the lack of smoothing groups...
my primary objective right now is to get the basic shape of the WHOLE terrain, and then i'll proceed to "mold" it, that's the way i do things
Don't worry as i said in my op, this is not even close to finished, so thanks for pointing out those details :)

Edited by ChBgt909 on Mar 3, 2013 at 05:44 PM


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 12:50 AM    Msg. 11 of 682       
More updates:




darksoldier
Joined: Dec 28, 2010

Helo my friend, it's time to fight ;)


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:16 AM    Msg. 12 of 682       
With some forerunner or covenant structure, it would be awesome !!!! I always love your style ChBgt909 :D


bourrin33
Joined: Oct 19, 2009

HEK not installed tho


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:29 AM    Msg. 13 of 682       
It's time to tell you about smooth cliffs : It almost never exists (cliffs surrounding plain ground as well but meh.)
You should try to go for something like this :

or this in more simple

(No idea how it was geologically formed, I think it was dug then filled with erosion)

You can get a result like this (or more the first picture) by creating a random rock, then unwrapping it, and repeating it on the wall and move vertices randomly, and in the end cutting and welding everything together.
It would be nice to see...


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 06:50 AM    Msg. 14 of 682       
they are not smooth, it might look like that because of the angle of the pictures and the fact that i'm using quads in like 90% of the map, besides, this is a 11 years old engine, if i make them that sharp, it wont look good unlike in newer engines where even a single plane can look awesome with the recent shadering system. i need to smooth them out just a lil but believe me, i have the model and thus i see it from every angle and im telling you the they are not that smooth... besides they are not any worse than even those in the original maps...

i will move some faces and flat them out but trust me they are fine

Edited by ChBgt909 on Mar 4, 2013 at 06:56 AM


AllySuzumiya
Joined: Feb 27, 2013

"Kotae wa itsumo watashi no mune ni.."


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 12:31 PM    Msg. 15 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: bourrin33
It's time to tell you about smooth cliffs : It almost never exists (cliffs surrounding plain ground as well but meh.)
You should try to go for something like this :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Scotland_Skye_cliffs.jpg
or this in more simple
http://www.old-picture.com/europe/pictures/Cheddar-Cliffs-002.jpg
(No idea how it was geologically formed, I think it was dug then filled with erosion)

You can get a result like this (or more the first picture) by creating a random rock, then unwrapping it, and repeating it on the wall and move vertices randomly, and in the end cutting and welding everything together.
It would be nice to see...

The only problem with that is that with Halo 1, jagged surfaces look terrible. Unless he's willing to invest some couple of hours into making sure the rocks don't look rushed, smooth is the way to go. The best thing to talk about here wouldn't be the that but it would be the skydome. I feel like with the regular halo skydome, it would look rather bad. If you could link me this map on emule or something, i could see about getting some good textures for the ground and a good skydome to put around it. I might even just remake the existing skydome in Halo CE so that it just looks nicer on the eye.


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:05 PM    Msg. 16 of 682       
Making excuses because of how the engine renders does not mean much on how the cliffs look or not. Look at any bsp from the original game and you will hardly find fine smooth surfaces that are shown on the bsp that are shown in this thread. The cliffs shown are smooth and undetailed...

Also, a couple hours is not much time when invested into a bsp... You can spend much more and get fabulous detail.

Take a look at this tutorial:

http://vimeo.com/11781231

It's old, but the concept is basically the same.

Use noise, cut tool, collapse, and keep playing with your vertices to get geometrical rock looking figures.
Edited by Higuy on Mar 4, 2013 at 03:06 PM


clonecam117
Joined: Dec 11, 2012

Now a professional VFX/particle effect artist.


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:11 PM    Msg. 17 of 682       
Reminds me of Exile for some reason...


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:25 PM    Msg. 18 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy

Making excuses because of how the engine renders does not mean much on how the cliffs look or not. Look at any bsp from the original game and you will hardly find fine smooth surfaces that are shown on the bsp that are shown in this thread. The cliffs shown are smooth and undetailed...

Also, a couple hours is not much time when invested into a bsp... You can spend much more and get fabulous detail.

Take a look at this tutorial:

http://vimeo.com/11781231

It's old, but the concept is basically the same.

Use noise, cut tool, collapse, and keep playing with your vertices to get geometrical rock looking figures.
Edited by Higuy on Mar 4, 2013 at 03:06 PM


Once again, they are not that smooth, i'm using quads, lots of them, and the color and all that makes them look that way, but seriously i've seen other WIP with worse terrain and no one complains about it, my cliff walls might not be the best looking ones but they are decent compared to many maps out there, here, more pictures to show you that you guys are exaggerating
besides.... this doesn't even have smoothing groups nor any textures (remember how i made imposing and core look decent even tho the terrain was horrible?)...
i'm gonna make more changes here and there obviously as this is still a WIP and i'm not even close to being finished and once again, and i mean it, thank you for the feedback and for pointing all that out, it's just that i rly think you guys are overreacting a little bit here








Edited by ChBgt909 on Mar 4, 2013 at 03:32 PM


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:45 PM    Msg. 19 of 682       
No one here is attacking your or overreacting. People are trying to help you, and you need to get past the fact that you will receive criticism sometimes, and sometimes its because people want to help you make your work better. Just because your work is "above average" does not make it amazing, and it doesn't make it stand out anymore compared to the billions of maps that are also above average. Listen to the people around you that are plenty experienced and have been for some time. Most of the cliffs in the pictures just posted are either very flat with little detail and smooth or have too many polygons in some areas. Like I said, try utilizing the collapse tool to clear some things up, and then use plenty of the other tools mentioned like cut and soft selection to create more interesting and dynamic shapes that seem more rock like.


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:49 PM    Msg. 20 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy
No one here is attacking your or overreacting. People are trying to help you, and you need to get past the fact that you will receive criticism sometimes, and sometimes its because people want to help you make your work better. Just because your work is "above average" does not make it amazing, and it doesn't make it stand out anymore compared to the billions of maps that are also above average. Listen to the people around you that are plenty experienced and have been for some time. Most of the cliffs in the pictures just posted are either very flat with little detail and smooth or have too many polygons in some areas. Like I said, try utilizing the collapse tool to clear some things up, and then use plenty of the other tools mentioned like cut and soft selection to create more interesting and dynamic shapes that seem more rock like.


And like i said in my previous post, i appreciate the help you guys are giving me, and also, i never said my maps were awesome, or above average as i obviously know my limitations, i just said that my cliff walls might not be the best but are not just randomly made like many do, alright i will make the changes, and post more pictures, (but don't expect me to do something like bourrin posted lol)
once again thanks
oh and some ideas for the structures would be appreciated :)


Ki11erFTW
Joined: Jul 4, 2009

You've seen nothing yet.


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 03:55 PM    Msg. 21 of 682       
It's looking decent so far. You got the polies on the cliffs already, just turn it into something. If you are gonna leave them like that, mine as well make it only one quad going vertical


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 4, 2013 04:10 PM    Msg. 22 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: Ki11erFTW
It's looking decent so far. You got the polies on the cliffs already, just turn it into something. If you are gonna leave them like that, mine as well make it only one quad going vertical


ok i will do that, i will just complete the rest of the terrain and then i will fix the cliff walls, i'm not really sure of what to do with them yet but well i have months ahead to figure it out hehe


SlenderMan
Joined: May 3, 2012

01000100 01000101 01000001 01010100 01001000


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 12:29 PM    Msg. 23 of 682       
Hmm i actually think you are exaggerating a little guys...
the cliff walls look good IMO
tbh they look better than many maps out there, and even cliffnwalls made by "pros" look like these ones... but anyways i do agree tho, in the fact that you could save some polies by removing some faces that are not needed

i like the layout and well let me find good concepts for the structures, keep it up :)


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 04:28 PM    Msg. 24 of 682       
I'm not done with the editing just tell me if i'm doing it right:








Edited by ChBgt909 on Mar 5, 2013 at 04:29 PM


SilentJacket
Joined: Jun 9, 2012

-Did I miss something?-


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 04:31 PM    Msg. 25 of 682       
could you put some extra detail (boulders and debris, maybe some running water) in those caves?


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 04:34 PM    Msg. 26 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: SilentJacket
could you put some extra detail (boulders and debris, maybe some running water) in those caves?


i actually want to add more details there. maybe boulders, but i'm also going to add an structure there so i won't add many details because of that


bourrin33
Joined: Oct 19, 2009

HEK not installed tho


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 05:05 PM    Msg. 27 of 682       
an other thing you could do is put your texture on a lower poly wall then use the cut tool to give it relief


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 05:57 PM    Msg. 28 of 682       
Quote: --- Original message by: bourrin33
an other thing you could do is put your texture on a lower poly wall then use the cut tool to give it relief


good idea, i think i'm gonna do that to some areas :D

as i said i won't use the same uvw method that i used on core and imposing but i will try to unwrap many of the cliff walls and make textures matching the models


xnx
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

h2 marine anims or i detonate the vest


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 06:49 PM    Msg. 29 of 682       
This looks like one of those maps where the players make the most of it. You know, like in bloodgulch where certain hills and such are forged into vantage points by each team even though they weren't intended to be. The rolling hills in the map provide a lot of variety, and I have to say it looks great so far.


master noob
Joined: Aug 10, 2012

343Industries Advocate


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 07:17 PM    Msg. 30 of 682       
thank me later, son.




at the moment, I can't recall if these textures tile correctly.
Edited by master noob on Mar 5, 2013 at 07:18 PM


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Mar 5, 2013 11:02 PM    Msg. 31 of 682       
Liking what im seeing so far

Also MN, im taking these textures if you dont mind


renegade343
Joined: Jun 26, 2012

CE3 Stage Modeler, Editor, and Writer


Posted: Mar 6, 2013 05:32 PM    Msg. 32 of 682       
Lookin' pretty good~!

...though at least from eyeballing it, that texture doesn't look like it's tiled... o.o


master noob
Joined: Aug 10, 2012

343Industries Advocate


Posted: Mar 6, 2013 07:11 PM    Msg. 33 of 682       
it tiles horizontally just fine, and anyone should feel free to use it.


abkarch
Joined: Mar 20, 2010


Posted: Mar 6, 2013 09:22 PM    Msg. 34 of 682       
I never heard any of you guys complaining about the bloodgulch cliffs.
seriously, maybe make it a BIT more jagged, but its a game engine from 2001. Hes not gonna be able to make jagged rocks sticking out everywhere. Bumps will have to do most of the work.

It looks really good IMO. A bit generic for my tastes but thats just my opinion. adding wrecked ships and such for aesthetic purposes would make it more appealing.


ChBgt909
Joined: Sep 10, 2011

ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ


Posted: Mar 7, 2013 08:20 PM    Msg. 35 of 682       
Well i got more updates, i really hope you like what i did, and of course, i'm not finished with the changes on the terrain, but, if there's something you'd like to point out, just say it :)


modified this ledge on the cliff wall a little bit




i made this area of the cliff wall a bit more irregular



made the tunnel thicker



i made a hole on the cave's ceiling to add a waterfall, the water will fall inside a underground cave



metal structure exposed on one of the walls




didn't add details on this wall because some cliff walls aren't that detailed and also, that area will have an structure so if i put more details here it will be after i add the structure



please tell me you like this rock formation lol, it kinda looks like one of those mountains that you see in the distance on that level of halo 3 "the ark"




general view of the map from both sides


 
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