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Author Topic: CMT's The Silent Cartographer Evolved -- Official Thread (1968 messages, Page 1 of 57)
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Ifafudafi
Joined: Jun 23, 2010


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 09:50 PM    Msg. 1 of 1968       
THIS THREAD IS FOR THE SILENT CARTOGRAPHER: EVOLVED. IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR INFO ABOUT SPV3, GO *HERE* INSTEAD.

To get it out of the way: TSC:E isn't coming out on the 29th anymore.

When, then? Just below, teh lag has posted a list of all the things we need to finish before we're ready to ship. When this list is empty, the map will be released -- and we'll cross tasks off the list every day as they are completed.

Mod (and general game) development is a very volatile process. It's a normal and healthy part of any project that strives to be the best it can, but it also means we haven't wanted to say anything too concrete for fear of having to backpedal later on. (We did give concrete info with release dates, twice, and look where we are now).

Now that we're in the last stretch, though, the vast majority of things have been locked down, and we can lift most of the secercy-veil we've been hiding under. Part of that process is opening up this final to-do list to you guys; but we'd also like to compensate for the delay by inviting you to ask any questions you'd like about TSC:E.

Obviously we still have a lot of suprises we don't want to ruin, but we'll try and answer whatever we can if it's on-topic and everybody stays polite about it.


teh lag
Joined: May 6, 2008


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 09:51 PM    Msg. 2 of 1968       
http://forum.halomaps.org/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=47823

It's been a hell of a journey.

(Please use that thread now)

------------------------------------

(ho ho ho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhWFUxsTMyg)

here is the list
Quote:

Stuff that's not done:

???

Stuff that's done!

Release the map this week!
Test & approve final release candidate
Finish rendering DLMs for finalized BSPs...



BSP
- Port Hunter Complex facade to cave-side Security BSP -- done
- Port removal of water-pit from LZ to Cave BSP -- done
- Shrink alternate Cave entrance in LZ BSP -- done
- Fix UV errors introduced by merging Hunter Complex into Cave -- done
- Fix UV errors in Cartographer Canyon -- done
- Finish porting in revised UFO model -- done
- UV and paint ground maps & water maps -- done
- Add decals to cover ground map transitions -- done
- Add ramp transition to security entrance in Server Room -- done
- Bring Cave BSP under 15.5mb -- done
- Port in int_shaft_b ground textures -- done
- Fix int_shaft_b ripple and waterfall shaders -- done
- Finish int_shaft_b portals -- done
- Apply fog FX to int_shaft_b and Cartographer -- done
- Redo wave geometry to extend further -- done
- Add fog band for sky blending at water -- done
- Apply cluster sound env properties to updated BSPs -- done

AA Wraith
- Import projectile firing and detonation sfx -- done

Shredder
- FP animations -- done
- 3P model, animations, collision -- done
- Foley sounds-- done

Battle Rifle
- Port new FP display shaders to 3P -- done

AR/GL
- FP GL firing animation -- done

Pelican
- Import redone body, textures -- done
- Import busted crashsite model -- done

Hunter
- Finish new model -- done
-- & textures -- done
- VFX for back-armor destruction -- done
- (standing task to polish until release) -- as done as it's going to get with current resources

Elite
- Ball Shade gunner animations -- done

Cyborg
- Ball Shade gunner animations -- done
- Finish porting new FP weapon animations to 3p -- cut :(

Scenery
- Finish Demon Trees for Cave & int_shaft_b -- done
- Finish upgraded Demon Tree for Brute Pool -- done
- Finish ring hologram for Cartographer -- done :)
- Finish island hologram for Security -- done :)
- Finish new wide control hologram shaders for Cartographer -- done
- Import upgraded Hunter Lift with control panel -- done
- Merge in upgraded foliage tags -- sort of done, sort of cut
- Import new lightbridge and battery sfx -- done
- Create new large waterfall VFX -- done

Misc
- Dim damage impact flashes some more -- done
- Finish or cut re-timed FP reload, ready and melee animations -- cut :(

Mission
- Un-screwify music transitions for vehicle return -- done
- Finish Marine migration across BSPs -- done
- Verify correctness of infantry return path migration -- done
- Fix boulder permutations near BSP transitions -- done
- Fix opening shot cutscene camera angle -- done

(Stuff that was stupidly omitted from the original list)
Redo Brute hard-ping animations -- done
Redo Plasma Rifle's glow-light shaders -- done
Set up the Cartographer Ribs device tags -- done
Set up Thumper SFX and VFX -- done
Revise terrain ground maps -- done
Chase away phantom BSP to places it doesn't matter for exterior BSP -- done
- for interior BSP -- done


"wow this is a big list" yeah it is. "how did things turn out like this" i dont know man but it did

we're making some big sacrifices to keep our momentum going, and everybody working on this project has been putting in near-superhuman numbers of hours since the release crunch started back in may. we kind of saw this coming at the end of june, which is why we pushed back a month - and it still wasn't enough. it's disappointing and embarrassing, but it's better to lose some face than release that which isn't ready, right?
Edited by teh lag on Mar 2, 2015 at 08:36 PM


Danger_zone_98
Joined: Nov 26, 2012


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 09:59 PM    Msg. 3 of 1968       


Delicon20
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Still here. Still loves bacon


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:12 PM    Msg. 4 of 1968       
If that's considered the home stretch I'd hate to see what the list looked like a year ago.


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:12 PM    Msg. 5 of 1968       
I want to complain but at the same time I can't because I understand this is a hard task, and what you do takes immense amounts of skill and determination. Besides, I'd rather have a polished map that one full of bugs...
Question, though.

I noticed on the list, "AR/GL" and "Shredder"
"GL"
"Shredder"
whatdis

Is the Shredder the new Spiker replacement we saw hinted in the SPV3 trailer?


Ifafudafi
Joined: Jun 23, 2010


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:18 PM    Msg. 6 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: Delicon20
If that's considered the home stretch I'd hate to see what the list looked like a year ago.

It's not like all of these will take a week each -- we'll already be crossing a couple of things off before we go to bed tonight

Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
I noticed on the list, "AR/GL" and "Shredder"
"GL"
"Shredder"
whatdis

Is the Shredder the new Spiker replacement we saw hinted in the SPV3 trailer?

AR/GL is the AR/GL

TSC:E is not SPV3


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:20 PM    Msg. 7 of 1968       
If "GL" means Grenade Launcher and that the AR has a variant of that, that's news to me.
Sorry about confusing TSC:E and SPV3 again, I do that a lot.
But then the question remains, what is the Shredder?


That means it's good
V Below
Edited by RabbitFood on Aug 27, 2014 at 10:29 PM


Ifafudafi
Joined: Jun 23, 2010


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:25 PM    Msg. 8 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
But then the question remains, what is the Shredder?


one of the surprises we don't want to ruin


teh lag
Joined: May 6, 2008


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:30 PM    Msg. 9 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
If "GL" means Grenade Launcher and that the AR has a variant of that, that's news to me.


it's true! tsc:e lets you use a version of the AR with a GL attached for the opening fight and however longer you hold onto it. the gl attachment behaves like a 4th grenade slot, so you can switch between it and regular grenades when you have that weapon equipped.

here is a video from june 21, when we finally got it working. an exciting day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59JrvKLVJc

Quote: anbnimations, soudns are place holder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


the day after that we got the ball shade working! it was a productive weekend. rest assured that the ball shade now has actual textures.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFOxfpjXnRs
Edited by teh lag on Aug 27, 2014 at 10:32 PM


EtchyaSketch
Joined: Apr 11, 2014

S P I N


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 10:32 PM    Msg. 10 of 1968       
Lose face?
I mean sure you had a release date, and you couldn't meet it buuuuuut.
I'm getting a free mod that revamps one of my favorite Halo missions man.
I could care less \_(ツ)_/


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 11:14 PM    Msg. 11 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: teh lag
it's true! tsc:e lets you use a version of the AR with a GL attached for the opening fight and however longer you hold onto it. the gl attachment behaves like a 4th grenade slot, so you can switch between it and regular grenades when you have that weapon equipped.

here is a video from june 21, when we finally got it working. an exciting day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59JrvKLVJc

Interesting approach to the launcher, having a loading gate on the underside like a shotgun. Would you happen to have a side view of the grenadier rifle by itself?


killzone64
Joined: Jun 9, 2010

Mostly active on discord


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 11:30 PM    Msg. 12 of 1968       
ok so this is delayed (which is extremely disappointing) but what of the new opensauce update that was supposed to release alongside. i have put off the majority of my projects waiting for this update... will it still be released on the 29th?
Edited by killzone64 on Aug 27, 2014 at 11:46 PM


General_101
Joined: Dec 23, 2013

Apparently all I post is spam.


Posted: Aug 27, 2014 11:50 PM    Msg. 13 of 1968       
I am sadden but not surprised to be honest. Do take your time though to make sure everything is ironed out though if you feel you need to. A working mod is better than a mod that breaks half way through the level needing you to switch the bsp manually.


boogerlad
Joined: Jun 18, 2009


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 12:32 AM    Msg. 14 of 1968       
I noticed that some things on the list may be cut due to time constraints. I wouldn't mind waiting a lot longer for the "demon tree" and the other little things. It all adds up to the overall experience which is worth it in my opinion. For projects like this, how is the team kept organized? Is git used or some other sort of version control?


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 01:29 AM    Msg. 15 of 1968       
I was in a skype call then thechunkierbean comes in and starts crying because of this...


Oskarmandude
Joined: Mar 16, 2013

Make Halomaps Fully Hectic Again


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 01:29 AM    Msg. 16 of 1968       
spv2


justiyt
Joined: Aug 25, 2014


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 01:42 AM    Msg. 17 of 1968       
What are demon trees?


Wolf_
Joined: May 16, 2006


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 06:19 AM    Msg. 18 of 1968       
You guys should look into recruiting one or two more members to spread out the workload a bit. For future release dates that is. Looking forward for the final product!


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 07:47 AM    Msg. 19 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: Altearose
Is this for Halo CE? Is there are version for Halo 2 Vista?


Only for Halo CE. CMT doesn't like the Halo 2 Engine or something.


ODX
Joined: Jul 26, 2007

A rare sight, indeed.


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 11:58 AM    Msg. 20 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: Wolf_
You guys should look into recruiting one or two more members to spread out the workload a bit. For future release dates that is. Looking forward for the final product!
Well, they pulled me back in if that's any indication of the work that needs to be done. Obviously by the list there, Lag's far too busy to animate stuff so that means I'm currently working on the mysterious Shredder right now :O

Oh, and my other 2-3 year old animations are getting touch-ups whenever I'm able.


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 01:21 PM    Msg. 21 of 1968       
*single tear*


savinpvtmike
Joined: Apr 18, 2010

It's heavily inserted


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 01:33 PM    Msg. 22 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
Quote: --- Original message by: Altearose
Is this for Halo CE? Is there are version for Halo 2 Vista?


Only for Halo CE. CMT doesn't like the Halo 2 Engine or something.

no, every one dus not like its hek cus it sucks


Ifafudafi
Joined: Jun 23, 2010


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 02:48 PM    Msg. 23 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77
Would you happen to have a side view of the grenadier rifle by itself?

pow

Quote: --- Original message by: killzone64
what of the new opensauce update that was supposed to release alongside. i have put off the majority of my projects waiting for this update... will it still be released on the 29th?

OS team operates on their own schedule, so I can't give you anything solid -- but I doubt you'll see it tomorrow. It's possible that it will release before TSC:E. It's possible that it won't. It definitely won't release any later than TSC:E, since TSC:E will be incorporating some of the new tech.

Quote: --- Original message by: boogerlad
I wouldn't mind waiting a lot longer for the "demon tree" and the other little things.

Specifics on the demon tree (and the reasons why we may decide to cut some elements) are lag's domain -- I'll let him elaborate if he wishes -- but I can say that if we're considering cutting something, it's because it has the potential to be a huge timesink that can bottleneck big portions of development, drain resources from critical tasks, and/or (usually and), while probably nice, won't improve the map to the point where we'll hate ourselves for not having it.

Most TSC:E devs have things they wanted but couldn't make happen -- but that's normal in just about any project, especially one of this scale. We have to be able to draw a line of "well yes that would be neat, but we also need to get this finished and released in a coherent way." If a project keeps increasing its scope and adding new features every time an idea pops up, without considering the time/effort cost, you end up with
Quote: --- Original message by: Oskarmandude
spv2

That's not to say we haven't let ourselves have new ideas -- we've expanded beyond existing plans on more than one occasion, because sometimes a couple extra months really is worth it. If you told me about ~20% into the project that we'd have [redacted] and [redacted], or that we'd take [redacted] and turn it into [redacted], I would have asked to go back with you in your time machine so I could live in this amazing future world. (Little would I know -- I would live there anyway, because the amazing future world is now!)

Quote: --- Original message by: boogerlad
how is the team kept organized? Is git used or some other sort of version control?

Communication is handled through a private forum and AIM. We do version control with Mercurial for both our tags and our scripts. (Lag set that up and can probably tell you more if you want any thing more specific.) (Yes, lag does a lot of things. Most of the things, really.)


AlekosGR
Joined: Aug 13, 2013

ACE Moding Team (Azura Computer Entertainment)


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 03:53 PM    Msg. 24 of 1968       
Everyone is waiting for TSC:E and I am just sitting here, playing Lumoris...


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 04:49 PM    Msg. 25 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: AlekosGR
Everyone is waiting for TSC:E and I am just sitting here, playing Lumoris...


Still waiting for Lumoria with CMT tags.


UHWArby
Joined: Jul 2, 2013

PIPO vive


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 05:42 PM    Msg. 26 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
Quote: --- Original message by: AlekosGR
Everyone is waiting for TSC:E and I am just sitting here, playing Lumoris...


Still waiting for Lumoria with CMT tags.


and new textures


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 06:13 PM    Msg. 27 of 1968       
A few suggestions in regards to the grenadier rifle:
1. There's a gap on the front end of the grenade launcher that looks sorta awkward. It doesn't really seem to have a reason for being there. I'd suggest shortening it until what was once a gap becomes a flat face that the barrel protrudes from, if that makes sense.

These are only applicable if it's a pump-action launcher that feeds through a loading gate (which it appears to be based on the video, but it was hard to tell) and not a breech-loader like the realworld M203:
2*. The portion that's being used as a loading gate could be modified to be more similar to the loading gate found on the M90-series of shotguns. Right now, it looks exactly the same as the piece found on non-grenadier MA5 rifles.
3*. I think the part that you actually pump needs to sort of wrap around the body of the launcher. As it is, it doesn't look like anything could actually move.

*You mentioned that animations were still a work in progress. #2 and #3 could both be remedied by animating the launcher as a metal storm system, as ammunition is stored in preloaded, detachable barrels (which would negate the need for a loading gate). In addition to this, the system requires no moving parts, which would negate the need for modifying the model of the pump. Just something to consider.
Edited by Echo77 on Aug 28, 2014 at 06:14 PM


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 07:11 PM    Msg. 28 of 1968       
The GL is exciting and all, but it's sort of put down for me because I know I'll be piss poor with it.


darknesssamurai
Joined: Jul 26, 2010

It started with a Mew card and now I have all this


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 09:49 PM    Msg. 29 of 1968       
Thanks, even if the time is missed we are still in for a great refined experience and the commitment you all put in shows. Grab extra time.

My questions is which weapons (that we have already been introduced to), are getting upgrades/new projectiles/fx changes? I'm sure you want to keep all new weapons under wraps which I why I ask only about the ones we know of.
Edited by darknesssamurai on Aug 28, 2014 at 09:50 PM


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 10:05 PM    Msg. 30 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: darknesssamurai

Thanks, even if the time is missed we are still in for a great refined experience and the commitment you all put in shows. Grab extra time.

My questions is which weapons (that we have already been introduced to), are getting upgrades/new projectiles/fx changes? I'm sure you want to keep all new weapons under wraps which I why I ask only about the ones we know of.
Edited by darknesssamurai on Aug 28, 2014 at 09:50 PM


Considering everything we've already seen in video has had the "These are not final and may change in the future" thing, I'd say that most weapons have had some tweaks. Hopefully the Spiker. Loved it in SPV2, was a bit rubbish in SPV3 Beta.

but as those silly cmt guys keep remindin me, tsc:e isnt spv3


Ifafudafi
Joined: Jun 23, 2010


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 10:53 PM    Msg. 31 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: darknesssamurai
which weapons (that we have already been introduced to), are getting upgrades/new projectiles/fx changes?
Edited by darknesssamurai on Aug 28, 2014 at 09:50 PM

Basically every effect in the game has been redone since a50 2012. In fact, I'll look through an HEK+ listing of all TSC:E's effects right now -- these are the only things we're still holding over from the stock game:

effects\glass collision.effect
effects\panel death.effect
scenery\waterfalls\spray_emitter_medium\jetspray_medium.effect
sound\sfx\impulse\panel\activate_panel.effect

Replacing the waterfall spray is on the to-do list, and activate_panel is just a sound. (Maybe I'll even knock out the other two just for completion's sake if I get the time.) And it's not just the stock stuff; pretty much every effect from a50 2012 has been further improved if not outright replaced. Explosions in particular have been hugely revamped, and plasma projectiles also have much more beefy impact effects. And then there are the new shield depletion effects, and the new sparks, and all the new material impact effects... 2.5 years of making this thing came with a lot of gaps in core development that I by default tended to fill with further effect improvements. (ask siliconmaster about me and my blood fx some time.)

Gameplay-wise, it's just a whole new thing. An immense amount of both in-theory design thought and and in-practice testing has gone into the weapon set, to the point where there's no way I can cover even a fraction of it here, beyond just quoting out-of-context stats for weapons (which would be about as useful as describing a five-course meal (the meal being TSC:E) by listing measurements of the utensils). Every single gun's behavior has been re-thought and reconstructed not just to be effective and satisfying in and of itself, but also to contribute to the broader experience of the map as a whole.

I can start by saying that our Carbine is now fully-automatic with an accelerating rate of fire, but explaining why would require me to explain what we're doing with our Pistol, which would require me to explain our interpretation and application of unique weapon roles, which would require me to explain even more about other guns, as well as start getting into broader shooter design... everything is there for a reason, everything touches everything. Maybe once the map is released I'll take the time to write out a huge devblog. There's plenty of material.

Quote: --- Original message by: RabbitFood
I'd say that most weapons have had some tweaks. Hopefully the Spiker.

Spiker is a total boss now; no other (non-power) weapon is better at hosing down big groups of Grunts and Jackals


Docer
Joined: Jul 10, 2014


Posted: Aug 28, 2014 11:18 PM    Msg. 32 of 1968       
So this will be release or not?


ziegler1122
Joined: Apr 1, 2014


Posted: Aug 29, 2014 01:15 AM    Msg. 33 of 1968       
now we Waite.


darknesssamurai
Joined: Jul 26, 2010

It started with a Mew card and now I have all this


Posted: Aug 29, 2014 01:25 AM    Msg. 34 of 1968       
Thanks IFA, your plasma pistol has been a cool feature with its Kamehameha -like charge effect in the fp (z team has well advanced upon the charge fx detail too). Can you tell us anything about your plasma pistol overhaul?


RabbitFood
Joined: Aug 9, 2014

tripping a path through an internship


Posted: Aug 29, 2014 07:51 AM    Msg. 35 of 1968       
Quote: --- Original message by: darknesssamurai
Thanks IFA, your plasma pistol has been a cool feature with its Kamehameha -like charge effect in the fp (z team has well advanced upon the charge fx detail too). Can you tell us anything about your plasma pistol overhaul?


Masterz did a vidoc on it a while ago, but there has probably been changes since then.

 
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