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Author Topic: RFC: Map-maker wants for server-side modifications (52 messages, Page 1 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 22, 2015 03:05 PM    Msg. 1 of 52       
Request for Comments:

As some of you may know, Harbinger and I have been working on UHMSO®, a server-side extension package, that includes, among other things, an optimization of the server that lowers the service time for player-side events from 32ms down to 8ms. This improves hit-detection, vehicle interaction and other things.

However, that's not what I'm here for.

I'm here to ask, as a map-maker, what server-side modifications would you like to see?

Now, I know, there are a lot of things possible with SAPP and it's LUA scripting, and while that's all fine and dandy, some people don't want to run SAPP for various reasons.

I want to keep this discussion on the topic of things that YOU, as map-makers, would like to see available in non-SAPP servers, be it Gandanur or Phasor, and eventually in SAPP if these changes are adopted.

Multi-team vehicle has been around a little while, and that's one of the first real server-side modifications I've implemented in UHMSO. Matter of fact, I had it working without the seat-collisions problems that SAPP had, way before it was fixed. :)

I also have some other surprises up my sleeve, but that's for some other time.

What ELSE would you guys like to see implemented? Things that make your maps more interesting, things that are possible in SAPP with LUA, anything you can think of that is server-side only, or maybe possible with some client-side development as well.


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

Still here because your site isn't active either.


Posted: Jul 22, 2015 05:33 PM    Msg. 2 of 52       
MMO-style objective syncing

[imagine having to hack your way into an objective at more than one location _before_ the option to plant your bomb appears? ]

even if you have to manually go into the game as an preAlpha and set the markers and triggervolumes manually for the server app
Edited by OrangeJuice on Jul 22, 2015 at 05:44 PM


sehe
Joined: Apr 5, 2012

ayy lmao


Posted: Jul 22, 2015 06:25 PM    Msg. 3 of 52       
"real people", kind of funny from a beta male who can't even drink his own beer in the presence of his wife.


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

Join my Discord https://discord.gg/GDVEaRD


Posted: Jul 22, 2015 06:48 PM    Msg. 4 of 52       
sehe vs realworld FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!


Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Jul 22, 2015 07:40 PM    Msg. 5 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
"real people", kind of funny from a beta male who can't even drink his own beer in the presence of his wife.


coming from the aggressive weeb fag who can't tolerate even the slightest seeds of competition

chill out. it's not like this is going to go very far anyways. the popularity of your SAPP garbage is not in jeopardy.

perhaps he just feels that playing halo WITH the default leading scheme is the "proper" way to play. why get so worked up over it?


sehe
Joined: Apr 5, 2012

ayy lmao


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:10 AM    Msg. 6 of 52       
I think it's you are the one who should chill out. Read my post, then read your post and think about who overreacted it. I didn't even do a remark on his project itself, didn't insult it either, and I really couldn't care less about the 10th server app for a dead game.


The Kingx
Joined: Mar 16, 2014

ᕙ༼ ಠ益ಠ༽ᕗ


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:27 AM    Msg. 7 of 52       
i like where this is going


sehe
Joined: Apr 5, 2012

ayy lmao


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:31 AM    Msg. 8 of 52       
That's what she said.


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 08:58 AM    Msg. 9 of 52       
This thread is intended to see what map makers would like to see as server-side extensions.

Can we keep this on topic?


bourrin33
Joined: Oct 19, 2009

HEK not installed tho


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 09:07 AM    Msg. 10 of 52       
Let's be crazy, how about standing on vehicles ? Syncing devices ?
How about a concept of hitmarker detection, somehow


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

Join my Discord https://discord.gg/GDVEaRD


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 09:11 AM    Msg. 11 of 52       
Those wouldn't be server side only modifications.


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 09:28 AM    Msg. 12 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: bourrin33
Let's be crazy, how about standing on vehicles ? Syncing devices ?
How about a concept of hitmarker detection, somehow


Elaborate please, standing on MOVING vehicles?

Syncing WHAT devices?

Hitmarker detection: Because the client already beeps when you get a hit, it shouldn't be too hard to modify the client to do so. But that's not a server-side modification unless I'm misunderstanding the question. Outside the scope of this thread, but worth thinking about.


Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
Those wouldn't be server side only modifications.


Let's not rule out possible client-side modifications, as long as they go hand-in-hand with a server-side mod as well.


BA TomBoy
Joined: Jul 17, 2015

breathtaking


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 09:59 AM    Msg. 13 of 52       
One question whats that UHMSO?


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 10:40 AM    Msg. 14 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: BA TomBoy
One question whats that UHMSO?


A set of server-side modifications that can coexist with Gandanur, and eventually Phasor, or be stand-alone on a stock halo server. It's primary reason to exist was to lower the main timing loop from 32ms to 8ms (adjustable to anything from 1 to 128ms) to make "reg" better.

It has become more than just that, most of which I can't yet talk about, but one component of it is what I came here to talk about with map makers to see what, if anything, they would like to see added to the server side in terms of modified game-play.

One component of it that will remain under wraps for now might eventually work with SAPP, but I'm not staying up nights thinking about that right now :)

Quote: --- Original message by: Zetren




BTW, this was a play on words regarding Realworld. Nothing more :)


Edited by msalerno on Jul 23, 2015 at 10:44 AM
Edited by msalerno on Jul 23, 2015 at 10:45 AM


Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:05 PM    Msg. 15 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
I think it's you are the one who should chill out. Read my post, then read your post and think about who overreacted it.


Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
"real people", kind of funny from a beta male who can't even drink his own beer in the presence of his wife.


Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
That's what she said.


I guess outright ad hominems and rude, unprovoked behavior are completely "chill" things to do, right? As well as some laughably childish "that's what she said" jokes? And I assume it's just a coincidence you decided to post your condescending garbage on a thread about an external Halo app, just like you usually do? You're a retard. Stop posting and piss off back to Modacity or wherever you're tolerated.

Quote: --- Original message by: msalerno


As far as some neat additions that I'd love to see, being able to remain stationary on moving vehicles would definitely be something on my wish list. Something else that would be great is if you somehow devised a way for your app to reliably check the data of an object's collision geometry and have it sync with clients. That way, placable, non-BSP elements like scenery, vehicles, and everything in-between would be able to be destroyed, and would stay in sync with the other players.


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:13 PM    Msg. 16 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: Bungie LLC
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
Some stuff.


I guess outright ad hominems and rude, unprovoked behavior are completely "chill" things to do, right? As well as some laughably childish "that's what she said" jokes? And I assume it's just a coincidence you decided to post your condescending garbage on a thread about an external Halo app, just like you usually do? You're a retard. Stop posting and piss off back to Modacity or wherever you're tolerated.



Classic Bungie LLC post.
The only keywords missing were: "autism" and "twitter".
8/10 for effort.


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

Join my Discord https://discord.gg/GDVEaRD


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:29 PM    Msg. 17 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: Bungie LLC
check the data of an object's collision geometry and have it sync with clients.

It would be better to just sync model permutations since that would also sync collision. I might be wrong though


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:32 PM    Msg. 18 of 52       
What about different model permutations with multiple collision models? I wonder if that'd even sync either.


A really cool feature would be having decals show on non-BSP objects (as well as their collision stopping explosive damage.)


Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Jul 23, 2015 06:37 PM    Msg. 19 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode
childish garbage retard


haha hey what's up lodex :)

Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
Quote: --- Original message by: Bungie LLC
check the data of an object's collision geometry and have it sync with clients.

It would be better to just sync model permutations since that would also sync collision. I might be wrong though


I'm not too sure about how that works out, either. Your guess would be as good as mine. Maybe, depending on how this guy wants to approach that if he decides to go through with it, he could do some of his own research into which method would be best.


sehe
Joined: Apr 5, 2012

ayy lmao


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 05:33 AM    Msg. 20 of 52       
I see, insulting other people is still allowed, great forum.

I posted here because someone linked me this on steam that it will be a funny thread, and frankly, he was right. Besides I post wherever I want, and a little kid who achieved absolutely nothing in his pathetic and miserable life won't tell me where I should. Go outside, get a life and some friends, and perhaps you won't be so bitter.

Not least your ideas are stupid and can't be done without a client sided modification too.

You are not clever, you are not intelligent, so if you have nothing proper to say, better staying silent.
Edited by sehe on Jul 24, 2015 at 05:57 AM


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

Join my Discord https://discord.gg/GDVEaRD


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 05:37 AM    Msg. 21 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
can't be done without a client sided modification too.

Exactly.


sehe
Joined: Apr 5, 2012

ayy lmao


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 07:21 AM    Msg. 22 of 52       
Yeah, the only person who's still missing from this thread is sparky.


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 10:58 AM    Msg. 23 of 52       
The idea of syncing more between server and client intrigues me, as there is certainly something lacking in that area.

Quote: --- Original message by: Bungie LLC That way, placable, non-BSP elements like scenery, vehicles, and everything in-between would be able to be destroyed, and would stay in sync with the other players.


"Destroyed" in what way? Vehicle damage, ala Bigass's truck/Falcon falling apart? :)


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 11:51 AM    Msg. 24 of 52       
This is....so little and so late. If this were released tomorrow with all features included that were mentioned here, it still would not matter to the 200 english speaking players who still use the game, and because of the lack of a no-lead mode, the latino community wouldn't care anyway. Not to mention lack of LUA support.

It's like, we already have two choices of restaraunt, one which is regular service (SAPP), the other is a self-serve style buffet (Phasor), and then here comes dumb-acronym-extension restaurant which ends up being a grocery-store salad bar. It's so far behind, and lacking in just about every useful way imaginable.


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 12:25 PM    Msg. 25 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: NeXIt's so far behind, and lacking in just about every useful way imaginable.


Personally, if it never goes further than RW servers, I'm not really concerned.

This thread might do more to just get people talking than anything else, which is a good thing, regardless of my own personal interest in the subject matter


Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Jul 24, 2015 07:24 PM    Msg. 26 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe

I see, insulting other people is still allowed, great forum.

I posted here because someone linked me this on steam that it will be a funny thread, and frankly, he was right. Besides I post wherever I want, and a little kid who achieved absolutely nothing in his pathetic and miserable life won't tell me where I should. Go outside, get a life and some friends, and perhaps you won't be so bitter.

Not least your ideas are stupid and can't be done without a client sided modification too.

You are not clever, you are not intelligent, so if you have nothing proper to say, better staying silent.
Edited by sehe on Jul 24, 2015 at 05:57 AM


Check this out: by that logic, everything you just rattled off there in that super-angry post ALSO applies directly to you. lol

You are literally describing yourself.
Edited by Bungie LLC on Jul 24, 2015 at 07:25 PM


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff.” ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Jul 26, 2015 05:22 PM    Msg. 27 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
I see, insulting other people is still allowed, great forum.
It is not allowed but seems that it is the only way many of you know how to express yourselves. But to the point, you and Bungie LLC had better cease your bickering. I am not in the mood to read it frankly quite tired of seeing it. (and for those who are not astute enough that was indeed a veiled threat.)

Edited by Dennis on Jul 26, 2015 at 05:22 PM


msalerno
Joined: Jan 2, 2013


Posted: Jul 26, 2015 05:52 PM    Msg. 28 of 52       
Thanks, Dennis...


xnx
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

h2 marine anims or i detonate the vest


Posted: Jul 26, 2015 09:23 PM    Msg. 29 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
if you have nothing proper to say, better staying silent.


this made me laugh


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jul 27, 2015 02:49 AM    Msg. 30 of 52       
Quote: --- Original message by: Zetren
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis

Quote: --- Original message by: sehe
I see, insulting other people is still allowed, great forum.
It is not allowed but seems that it is the only way many of you know how to express yourselves. But to the point, you and Bungie LLC had better cease your bickering. I am not in the mood to read it frankly quite tired of seeing it. (and for those who are not astute enough that was indeed a veiled threat.)

Edited by Dennis on Jul 26, 2015 at 05:22 PM


Jolly good, Dennis old boy.


Why does everyone have this innate desire that dennis must be some sort kind of virtual terry thomas hybrid.



Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Jul 27, 2015 08:06 PM    Msg. 31 of 52       
the "SBB" part should be a dead giveaway


Kinnet
Joined: Dec 27, 2013

FeelsGoodMan


Posted: Jul 27, 2015 09:02 PM    Msg. 32 of 52       
the "2 page" button is killing me Xd


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Jul 28, 2015 06:54 PM    Msg. 33 of 52       
Can anything be done about the fact that some weapons spawn slightly "off" from their positions, compared to LAN? For example, load up hangemhigh in LAN and go into "office" (little window area) and notice how the shotguns are centered. Then load it up on a dedicated server and notice how they've shifted closer to the wall.


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Jul 29, 2015 09:47 AM    Msg. 34 of 52       
AI syncing!


Harbinger
Joined: May 16, 2009

Shoot first - Ask questions later.


Posted: Aug 1, 2015 12:46 PM    Msg. 35 of 52       
Myself having been a member of various "Halo Communities" etc. for well over a decade now, and no doubt many are aware, or have heard of my involvement with "Realworld Guild", which I have been fortunate for the past 6+ years to Administer, coupled with Hosting Dedicated Halo Servers, and other associated Halo related projects. Consequentially over the years, it's not been uncommon for Realworld Guild to have regularly taken hits regarding Halo being a "dead game", with "dead servers" etc. all of which is still very far from being true and least of all being accurate, and certainly in terms of continual player numbers and popularity alone, Halo is a not just a good game, it's a superb game. Yet despite such assertions, Realworld Guild has been honoured to lead the way where others have later followed, such as Hosting high quality Halo Custom Edition: Stock Map Servers (featuring every Stock Map), Hybrid Map (mixed Stock and Custom Map) Servers, dedicated Race Servers and above all providing very large Fixed Map Cycle Custom Map Servers. Realworld Guild also pioneered features that are now considered "standard" to the way many Halo Custom Edition Servers are operated, such as hosting regular "Sessions" for Players, introducing longer "default" game times of 60 minutes, and necessitating 5 Caps to win etc. Today Realworld Guild is still pleased to pave the way forward for more new and exciting developments that continue to manifest for playing Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo Custom Edition on the PC.

One reason why Realworld Guild primarily chooses to host Gandanur enabled Servers is simply because Gandanur was designed to be a Server Administration "Tool" (rather than a Server "Application") with the main objective to keep the game hosted as faithfully to the original concept as possible. However Realworld Guild has, and continues to Host SAPP enabled Servers as well.

Realworld Guild is not anti-SAPP, but prefers instead to host servers with as minimal changes to the way a server operates as possible. However with the continual development of SAPP and the (apparent) abandonment of Gandanur (if only the source code could be released) meant that in terms of basic server performance the disparity between any non SAPP server type and a SAPP enabled server has become quite distinct, mostly due simply to efficiency improvements in the main timing loop, coupled with a some other code optimisations and tweaks.

msalerno is an experienced (and professional) software applications developer, having himself previously worked for the Gaming Industry (in another incarnation) some time ago, consequentially he very much is the "right person" for understanding how best to implement efficiency changes to an existing game's software code base.

When I initially approached msalerno, my initial "Goal" for UHMSO®, "Universal Halo (Server) Milli-Second Optimisor" was to provide a "common playing field" in terms of performance across all servers regardless of the underlying server "Type" (be it, plain Vanilla, Gandanur, Phasor or SAPP server) but as UHMSO® development continued it became obvious that far more than such basic "optimisation" can be achieved. So I just kept on asking questions like, "so would it now then be possible to achieve stuff like 'XYZ'" to which msalerno replied, "uh hmm, I believe that would be possible given a bit of thought..."

In fact one of the very first little "extra" things achieved early on in UHMSO® development was ".gt", a simple command that anyone can use to display how much Game Time remains. sehe saw this and despite the "feature request" being on the SAPP Forum wish list for a very long time, was suddenly implemented in SAPP. It's cool that SAPP Servers now have this implemented. Next came Multi-Team Vehicle detection related stuff, all of which msalerno had identified and implemented correctly, long before SAPP fixed the issue. Again good that it's now fixed and working properly in SAPP. The UHMSO® project is never intended to compete with SAPP, only to provide ways to improve and increase server performance for all Server Operators and improve the overall game playing experience for players, regardless of the server "Type".

As they say though, the shows not over until the "Fat Lady Sings". All that can be revealed at this stage, is that one of the new ideas I suggested to msalerno as, "so could we implement "XXXX" then...", with the usual curt reply of, "I believe so..." , is still yet to be publicly announced. And it's a real show stopper. This new and exciting feature does not change the underlying game code itself, but can radically change the way any game can be played. It provides a new and unique logical "layer" on top of existing game play. Furthermore, this logical "layer" is completely up to players themselves to define. In short, this new feature completely revolutionises the way any game can be played, which especially includes the way game play can be structured but only (and purely) from a "logical" perspective and entirely according to players own control. As already stated, this exciting and revolutionary new feature does not change any actual game type what-so-ever, such as for example in the way an existing Server "App" could, such as in playing a new Zombie Game Type does etc.

This new "feature" is currently in beta testing, works and will be 100% compatible with all server types, including of course SAPP enabled servers. However since my original concept for this possibility, msalerno has originated much greater advancements even beyond my wildest imagination. Together we are improving things on a daily basis, and the best though really is yet to come. Additionally, as with all UHMSO® project objectives, everything is entirely optional and directly under Server Operators (and where applicable) Players full control. This new Server Extension is a collaborate project between ® Realworld Guild & Kilowatt Computers.

Real Freedom with Real Competition breeds Real Choice, and that's the guiding principle behind all projects of Realworld Guild. msalserno is also one of those rare visionaries who believes in making possibilities real.
Edited by Harbinger on Aug 1, 2015 at 12:54 PM
Edited by Harbinger on Aug 1, 2015 at 01:01 PM

 
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