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Author Topic: Halo 1.5 Maps (60 messages, Page 1 of 2)
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NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Jul 30, 2015 06:26 PM    Msg. 1 of 60       
Does anyone have copies of the Halo 1.5 maps that are formatted for CE?

I've heard rumors that they're floating around, but all I've seen are Zerohour and Downrush from March 2015.

I tried to decompress them using Arsenic, but I get a screwy .NET error trying to run it. I've since given up, after a few hours of ruthless troubleshooting (SlimDX issue, even full reinstalls of .NET and SlimDX SDK haven't solved it).

So: does anyone have the maps that they'd be willing to share? Or an alternative way for me to get a hold of the BSPs?


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Jul 30, 2015 11:31 PM    Msg. 2 of 60       
I'm in the same boat as you. The only person I know of that can do it is SBB Mike. He wouldn't tell me exactly how to do it but he told me to use Arsenic. He was scarce on the details because he already ported Downrush and Zerohour (you can get those off this site) and he's afraid someone else is going to do the others before him and do a bad job.

I was able to decompress the maps with Arsenic (works with DotHalo as well) but the BSP tag gets corrupted. My hypothesis is that you start by decompressing the map and then using some other tool besides the HEK to convert some tags to be CE-friendly. I'm pretty much stumped, though.

Either way I hope SBB Mike comes forward and either finishes the project or sheds some light on the procedure he used - those maps are great and it's a shame they haven't been available on CE all these years.

Once they're released I'll host them till the end of time on my server. Mike's Downrush and Zerohour ports are fantastic.


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 01:18 AM    Msg. 3 of 60       
What is this Halo 1.5? I googled Halo Zerohour but found some RTS game.


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

Join my Discord https://discord.gg/GDVEaRD


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 04:32 AM    Msg. 4 of 60       
Halo 1.5 is a mod for xbox halo that had custom maps.


Fubih
Joined: Jul 19, 2011

dead


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 04:38 AM    Msg. 5 of 60       
A map pack that a bunch of modders made for competitive gameplay, as far as I know.
link
Edited by Fubih on Jul 31, 2015 at 04:39 AM
Edited by Fubih on Jul 31, 2015 at 04:43 AM


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 06:07 AM    Msg. 6 of 60       
The funniest part is that the maps were made for CE in the HEK and then ported to xbox. Why the hell wouldnt you just release for CE, too? Its not like itd have been extra work


Xander92
Joined: May 31, 2010

I`m Russian,you maggot.


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 09:36 AM    Msg. 7 of 60       
talk to mike from sbb.


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 11:58 AM    Msg. 8 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: Xander92
talk to mike from sbb.


Well i would, we were going to help each other out with our separate projects, but between one nice game night where he pointed out some bugs in my maps and now, word is he hates my guts lol. Not sure why as that was the only interaction we had, and thats a rumor anyway, but hey.


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 12:19 PM    Msg. 9 of 60       
Nah he doesn't hate you, I think there was just a lot he disliked about the maps, iirc he was quite happy with the CE3 builds however.


bourrin33
Joined: Oct 19, 2009

HEK not installed tho


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 12:45 PM    Msg. 10 of 60       
Mike hates people for a while, bans, but it doesn't last long most of times.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 01:01 PM    Msg. 11 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: NeX
The funniest part is that the maps were made for CE in the HEK and then ported to xbox. Why the hell wouldnt you just release for CE, too? Its not like itd have been extra work


Probably because they would never have gotten the respect they deserve. The Halo meta-game seems to be completely absent from the PC/CE community. Even scrims in the highest-level of PC/CE are shallow compared to the stuff that old freaks have been doing on Xbox for the last 15 years.

Quote: --- Original message by: Xander92
talk to mike from sbb.


That's the idea. By the way, I can respect his decision about wanting to port the maps himself after having playing Downrush_h1.5 and Zerohour_h1.5. I have no problem with that.

But he actually needs to go through with it, or share the procedure with someone if he's going to abandon it.


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 01:10 PM    Msg. 12 of 60       
I can try asking Mike if I can atleast snag the bsps from him, since I talk to him like everyday. iirc, it took him anal loads of fixing to get the bsps working, materials, etc.
Edited by MEGASEAN2812 on Jul 31, 2015 at 01:13 PM


PRPatxi
Joined: Oct 30, 2010

Dennis, free me from this suffering


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 03:42 PM    Msg. 13 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: MEGASEAN2812

I can try asking Mike if I can atleast snag the bsps from him, since I talk to him like everyday. iirc, it took him anal loads of fixing to get the bsps working, materials, etc.
Edited by MEGASEAN2812 on Jul 31, 2015 at 01:13 PM


Mike is a hard working gentleman, he puts lots of effort too// I'm glad to have met him//


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 03:45 PM    Msg. 14 of 60       
I must say, those 1.5 maps look decent. And traditional. Very rustic.


PRPatxi
Joined: Oct 30, 2010

Dennis, free me from this suffering


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 03:48 PM    Msg. 15 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode
I must say, those 1.5 maps look decent. And traditional. Very rustic.


My main bro Lodex, just some wine to play these maps, and bro, the hours go by//


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 04:36 PM    Msg. 16 of 60       
I'm having a whiskey period myself, having visited a distillery in Scotland, home of the brave. But wine too, is fine.

Cheerio.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 04:47 PM    Msg. 17 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: MEGASEAN2812

I can try asking Mike if I can atleast snag the bsps from him, since I talk to him like everyday. iirc, it took him anal loads of fixing to get the bsps working, materials, etc.
Edited by MEGASEAN2812 on Jul 31, 2015 at 01:13 PM


Tell him I'd be pleased to do an anal load of work on those BSP's for him if it means they can get out the door sooner. It's my specialty :)

Quote: --- Original message by: PRPatxi
Mike is a hard working gentleman, he puts lots of effort too// I'm glad to have met him//


I don't doubt it for an instant, there's an uncommon level of polish on Downrush_h1.5 and Zerohour_h1.5.

Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode
I must say, those 1.5 maps look decent. And traditional. Very rustic.


And most importantly they play excellently. Most of them, anyway. Only 5-6 of them are still frequently in Xbox LAN parties (yes, people are still doing it!).


For those wondering what all the fuss is about:

http://www.halo1final.com/#!prettyPhoto
Edited by stunt_man on Jul 31, 2015 at 06:53 PM


The_Purrminator
Joined: May 30, 2014

(SBB) Michelle


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 07:18 PM    Msg. 18 of 60       
Soon.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Jul 31, 2015 07:19 PM    Msg. 19 of 60       
Based. After you release them, please share your technique so I can port the Xbox stock maps.


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 09:54 AM    Msg. 20 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: The_Purrminator
Soon.



...ish?


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 11:27 AM    Msg. 21 of 60       
Here are videos of a few of the maps:

Decidia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5iGpofHaPc

Imminent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfuX8aaWpI

Exhibit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrHaFAIN37s

Outbound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_tAbPCsbk

Red Shift: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3VGNLzUMtc

Hotbox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT78ZMm5xNE

These are the maps that were recently ported by SBB Mike:

Downrush: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaB4am_tiNg

Zerohour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeR701X8WR8

While some of these maps aren't the best-looking we've ever seen, what sets them apart is that they were designed for high-level competitive play, by skilled players. Special attention was paid to weapon spawn times and player spawn placement - things that are generally overlooked by this community, though no one can really be blamed. At the gameplay level, the PC port is a mere shadow of the original version, and for this reason the competitive community never adopted it. Issues with the PC port that affect high-level play include, but are not limited to:


  • Broken weapon spawn times: In the original version all the weapons spawn at exact intervals throughout the match (ex: Rocket launcher will spawn at exactly 2:00, 4:00, 6:00, etc). On PC, there is an issue with the way the dedicated server calculates time (paraphrased from a discussion with Btcc22 about the matter) and weapon spawns are far from exact (ex: Rocket Launcher will spawn at 2:00, 4:05, 6:12, etc)

  • Different weapon placement/spawn times on many vanilla maps

  • Bad controller support in online multiplayer (no analog movement with joystick - only works in SP)

  • Terrible netcode (warping, rubberbanding, exaggerated shot lead, etc)



The fact that the game was never picked up by the competitive Xbox group led players on Halo PC to establish their own competitive gametypes (TWL, etc), and in this case, their own maps as well. The maps in the Halo 1 final (or Halo 1.5) pack are built around the MLGTS gametype, which is basically 2v2 slayer with no radar and 5 second respawn times. The reason that gametype is recognized and established as having the deepest gameplay is because it brings out the beauty of Halo 1's player spawning system. But that's a topic for another day. In fact I'll make a thread about it soon because it's probably new information to most people here, judging by the sloppy player spawn placement in the majority of maps released.


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 12:07 PM    Msg. 22 of 60       
These maps are awesome. It's to bad there is no focus on competitive good gameplay maps these days.


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 02:15 PM    Msg. 23 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
These maps are awesome. It's to bad there is no focus on competitive good gameplay maps these days.


It should be possible with server-side scripting (lua) to force proper equipment spawning, but it's the BSPs that I'm after.

It still boggles my mind that someone would make a map in HEK, necessitating its existence for CE...and then just not release the originals after conversion.

wat.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 02:50 PM    Msg. 24 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
These maps are awesome. It's to bad there is no focus on competitive good gameplay maps these days.


Yes indeed it is a shame that the focus is on rips and ports from other Halo games.

No offense


renegade343
Joined: Jun 26, 2012

CE3 Stage Modeler, Editor, and Writer


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 03:49 PM    Msg. 25 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
What sets [these maps] apart is that they were designed for high-level competitive play by skilled players. Special attention was paid to weapon spawn times and player spawn placement - things that are generally overlooked by this community, though no one can really be blamed.


Totally out of curiosity, what else (especially in terms of BSP design) do you think is important for a good competitive map?


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 04:16 PM    Msg. 26 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
These maps are awesome. It's to bad there is no focus on competitive good gameplay maps these days.


Yes indeed it is a shame that the focus is on rips and ports from other Halo games.

No offense


Well I don't do that so none taken. The goal with the CMT MP maps was to have custom tags in a multiplayer setup with highly competitive play. I think we did that pretty well judging by the longevity of Snow Grove and Tensity.


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

Jesus is a friend to the vindictive sociopath


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 04:21 PM    Msg. 27 of 60       
Some of the .scenario_structure_bsp tags from the Halo 1 campaign are arena-based or otherwise would work well as multiplayer level terrains. An example is the hangar area from the inside of the Covenant ship that you first see. I turned that into a multiplayer level.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 04:35 PM    Msg. 28 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: renegade343
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
What sets [these maps] apart is that they were designed for high-level competitive play by skilled players. Special attention was paid to weapon spawn times and player spawn placement - things that are generally overlooked by this community, though no one can really be blamed.


Totally out of curiosity, what else (especially in terms of BSP design) do you think is important for a good competitive map?



  • Player spawn placement is a big one. The way that Sapien shows player spawns makes no sense. They shouldn't be displayed as "points" but rather as spheres, because a player can spawn at a given spawn point as long as their teammate is within what is known as the "sphere of influence" - even through walls. And if there are no teammates within any spawn "spheres" then the dead player will get a random spawn (will spawn at any spawn point that isn't being blocked by the enemy). The only way to block a spawn is to stand right on it. Again, I think I'm going to make a thread on this subject because it's pretty deep.

  • Measure heights. For example, in Hang 'Em High, the height of blue base was specifically set so that if you walk off the ledge, you can crouch-land to avoid fall damage. This type of stuff was all done by design and is not mere coincidence.

  • Keep in mind that high-level players WILL be timing the weapon spawns. Ensure that not all items spawn together to create map flow. For example, if OS/invis spawns every minute and Rockets spawn every 2 minutes, like on Damnation, this is how a match will generally play out: 0:00 players rush rox/OS/invis depending on their starting location. 0:45 players are setting up to grab OS or invis, or camping the area near it to stop the other team from getting it. 1:00 OS/invis spawn and players fight for them. The winners will return to power position at top green or top shotties. 1:45 rox/OS/invis are all coming up, players are setting up. etc, etc. As you can see, proper weapon spawn times are crucial to map flow and map control.



Those are some of the main concepts that should be applied to map design for competitive play. There are certainly others, but those are the first that come to mind.

My best advice would be to learn how the game plays at a high level. Once you've done that, your subconscious won't even let you proceed with bad designs because you'll be aware of the type of stuff that players will be doing.

EDIT: Just realized you were asking more specifically about BSP design. In truth, BSP design and weapon/player spawn placement should go hand-in-hand. Modelling maps in similar style to the vanilla maps is a good start, but the learning shouldn't stop there. Again, watch high-level gameplay. A good place to start is Missingno's Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2yeQnuwxkvCU0Zw3XKcPnA

EDIT 2:

Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
Some of the .scenario_structure_bsp tags from the Halo 1 campaign are arena-based or otherwise would work well as multiplayer level terrains. An example is the hangar area from the inside of the Covenant ship that you first see. I turned that into a multiplayer level.


I shamelessly rip geometry from single player to save time. I agree that a50 has some great spaces in there, but the polycount for geometry in the campaign is generally much higher than in multiplayer, so I tend to pick and choose pieces in order to keep polycounts as low as possible.

Edited by stunt_man on Nov 19, 2015 at 04:41 PM
Edited by stunt_man on Nov 19, 2015 at 04:49 PM


Higuy
Joined: Mar 6, 2007

@lucasgovatos


Posted: Nov 19, 2015 11:11 PM    Msg. 29 of 60       
People don't make competitive maps anymore because the competitive scene in CE is pretty much dead nowadays.

The maps look good and fun to play but would have been better if they had been released at least 5-6 years ago when the playerbase was still very active and competitive. This is not only an issue with competitive maps either, but generally just classic multiplayer maps in general. Unless your map has a bunch of custom tags that are representative of newer Halo games or something similar, its almost doubtful that your classic map that you release will get played for more then a week or two (or a handful of times after), even if its good and aimed at competitive play.


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Nov 20, 2015 10:03 AM    Msg. 30 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: Higuy
People don't make competitive maps anymore because the competitive scene in CE is pretty much dead nowadays.

The maps look good and fun to play but would have been better if they had been released at least 5-6 years ago when the playerbase was still very active and competitive. This is not only an issue with competitive maps either, but generally just classic multiplayer maps in general. Unless your map has a bunch of custom tags that are representative of newer Halo games or something similar, its almost doubtful that your classic map that you release will get played for more then a week or two (or a handful of times after), even if its good and aimed at competitive play.


Nah, people aren't making competitive maps because they make the mistake of creating content for the satisfaction of others. It's impossible to please everyone and therefore compromises are made during design, resulting in a plethora of maps that lack identity. Lack of refinement is another issue, but that's caused by over-ambitiousness.

As long as my buddies and I are able to jump into my server and play good competitive maps, my own personal CE competitive scene is far from dead.

In truth, even if the maps were released 5-6 years ago they still wouldn't have gotten much action. Custom maps have only recently become widely accessible with the releases of HAC2 and OS.

If the goal is to get competitive maps played at the highest level, the only way to do this would be to port them for the original Xbox and market them to the folks at teambeyond.net. There are still several LANs every year across the US. The maps need to be designed for that type of gameplay, though, and it's no surprise that no one knows how to design such maps, since there are very few PC players who are familiar with that level of play.


killzone64
Joined: Jun 9, 2010

Mostly active on discord


Posted: Nov 20, 2015 02:37 PM    Msg. 31 of 60       
im still trying to make competetive arena maps, my wip map codenamed select plays very good, as does a few of the others that are in progress


Zonda
Joined: Dec 28, 2014


Posted: Nov 21, 2015 02:52 AM    Msg. 32 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
Here are videos of a few of the maps.
They sort of remind me of Unreal Tournament in the way they're laid out, aside from a few key differences. Makes me want to start playing competitively again, to be honest. I love the Majora's Mask Moon in Imminent too!


NeX
Joined: Apr 11, 2013


Posted: Nov 21, 2015 10:37 AM    Msg. 33 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: Zonda
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
Here are videos of a few of the maps.
They sort of remind me of Unreal Tournament in the way they're laid out, aside from a few key differences. Makes me want to start playing competitively again, to be honest. I love the Majora's Mask Moon in Imminent too!


I'm in talks to work on a tagset and server scripts to put into well balanced arena maps for this purpose. Would use updated visual stuff (lazy so probably just CMT models/effects or some of my stuff from rev if I like it more) but have completely 100% classic tagset performance.

that would include proper timers and maybe even messaging system for "Rocket Launcher spawns in X seconds!" or "Camo is on the field!" so that no one using a timer program has advantages over others in the server.

Still very much in talks, but I really enjoyed playing the tourney-style gametypes back in my clanning days, and would like to do it again for fun.

I also think its funny when people say TeamBeyond is at this advanced level of play that PC gamers never got - if the timers worked correctly for all involved, the M/K set up would let even 8/10 players on PC destroy someone using a controller.

Watching their vids is funny how bad their strafing patterns are and how often they miss pretty straightforward shots


stunt_man
Joined: Sep 22, 2009

GMYF - Now hosting proper MLG gametypes!


Posted: Nov 21, 2015 10:15 PM    Msg. 34 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: NeX
Quote: --- Original message by: Zonda
Quote: --- Original message by: stunt_man
Here are videos of a few of the maps.
They sort of remind me of Unreal Tournament in the way they're laid out, aside from a few key differences. Makes me want to start playing competitively again, to be honest. I love the Majora's Mask Moon in Imminent too!


I'm in talks to work on a tagset and server scripts to put into well balanced arena maps for this purpose. Would use updated visual stuff (lazy so probably just CMT models/effects or some of my stuff from rev if I like it more) but have completely 100% classic tagset performance.

that would include proper timers and maybe even messaging system for "Rocket Launcher spawns in X seconds!" or "Camo is on the field!" so that no one using a timer program has advantages over others in the server.

Still very much in talks, but I really enjoyed playing the tourney-style gametypes back in my clanning days, and would like to do it again for fun.

I also think its funny when people say TeamBeyond is at this advanced level of play that PC gamers never got - if the timers worked correctly for all involved, the M/K set up would let even 8/10 players on PC destroy someone using a controller.

Watching their vids is funny how bad their strafing patterns are and how often they miss pretty straightforward shots


In talks with who? The way the server calculates time makes it impossible to program an accurate timer. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This effectively removes an entire chunk of the metagame that revolves around setting up for items as they spawn, down to the second. This is significant. If there is a way to fix this, it needs to implemented as soon as possible because this is a huge reason why the PC version wasn't adopted by the top-level players when the game released.

Which leads me to my next point. By nature, more predictive elements in a game mean higher skill gap. This is because success at the highest level requires knowledge as well as shooting-skill. The reasons why there's more emphasis on the shooting on PC are because a mouse is much easier to manage than a joystick (leading to shorter kill-times), and because of the aforementioned issues with weapon timing.

Your argument about control schemes is completely irrelevant, though - the game plays very differently on PC than on console. If (keyword: if) none of these issues were present on the PC version, console players would have adopted it immediately. There's no arguing that the mouse/keyboard control scheme works best for first person shooters in general. However, control scheme takes a backseat to functional gameplay and the predicative elements that set Halo 1's skill gap apart from the rest of the series.

In reality, the original version of the game has always been home to the highest level of play. Understand that I'm talking strictly about skill gap and the amount of different tactics taking place at any moment during a match. The console version works best network-wise (because it's played almost exclusively on LAN) and control-scheme-wise - the sandbox was designed around controller-based movement & aiming. Accessibility doesn't excuse poor network performance. By this I mean: of course the game is easier to pickup and play on PC - it's easier to connect to a broad audience, because you don't need to build a group of locals to LAN with. That being said, the PC version offers inferior network performance to an Xbox LAN environment, and on top of that there are the missing predictive elements that have already been discussed.

We're really talking about two completely different games here, from the weapon pickups to the established competitive gametypes, to the fundamental control scheme and therefore base movement and aiming.

If somebody saying that TeamBeyond is home to the highest level of Halo 1 players offends you, you're either misunderstanding the context or you need to watch some high level Xbox play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxDjAl5OAc

PS: don't get me wrong I'd love to see this level of play on PC but the netcode in its current state can't even support it
Edited by stunt_man on Nov 21, 2015 at 10:33 PM


Zonda
Joined: Dec 28, 2014


Posted: Nov 21, 2015 10:41 PM    Msg. 35 of 60       
Quote: --- Original message by: NeX
I'm in talks to work on a tagset and server scripts to put into well balanced arena maps for this purpose. Would use updated visual stuff (lazy so probably just CMT models/effects or some of my stuff from rev if I like it more) but have completely 100% classic tagset performance.

that would include proper timers and maybe even messaging system for "Rocket Launcher spawns in X seconds!" or "Camo is on the field!" so that no one using a timer program has advantages over others in the server.

Still very much in talks, but I really enjoyed playing the tourney-style gametypes back in my clanning days, and would like to do it again for fun.


Sounds good, I'd like to see some more 2v2 and 4v4 designed maps around.

Quote: I also think its funny when people say TeamBeyond is at this advanced level of play that PC gamers never got - if the timers worked correctly for all involved, the M/K set up would let even 8/10 players on PC destroy someone using a controller.

Watching their vids is funny how bad their strafing patterns are and how often they miss pretty straightforward shots
Well they have a fair enough point if they're just looking at games on Bigass or the vanilla maps where it's almost always 8v8 and all but 2 players on the losing side have Parkinson's and over 500 ping, so once Map control has been established it's pretty much game over. When I played seriously from around 2007-'10 there wasn't much of an emphasis on keeping track of the Powerup/Power Weapon spawns, even at the (perceived) higher level. Anybody who could aim, had reasonable knowledge of the Sandbox, Map layout, Spawn locations and Lead was going to fare pretty well.

Then again, I haven't been around in a while and Team Beyond is an unfamiliar name to me.

 
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