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Author Topic: Halo-Online at the Halomaps.org forum (67 messages, Page 1 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Oct 22, 2015 11:43 PM    Msg. 1 of 67       
I just want to once again make something very clear about the Halo-online game as pertains to this forum and associated websites.

Quote: it would be good if you added a board section for halo online on this forum

Halo online is not a game that is currently available in the US and does not support company sanctioned user created content. As such the distribution of (links to) mods or hacks is a direct violation of the copyright and hosting a site that supports that activity would put me personally and my company at legal and financial risk of liability.

I have already received a cease and desist order against a previous thread on this forum that linked to hacked content. Besides that fact that I will not condone or support illegal activity I will not jeopardize my company for a costly and losing legal challenge.

What that means is there will not now nor in the future be a Halo On-line section to the Halomaps.org forum just like there has never been a Halo PC section a Halo 3, 4 or 5 section.

Because it is a Halo game discussion of Halo-Online is allowed but limited to a single thread. Links to modified or hacked game content is prohibited as it it a violation of copyright laws and the forum's number one cardinal rule.

I hope this will finally make it clear about the prospect of adding a Halo-Online section to this forum. Thank you.

Dennis
Owner/Moderator


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:24 AM    Msg. 2 of 67       
Indeed
Edited by Jesse on Oct 23, 2015 at 12:27 AM


Roushyy
Joined: Jun 25, 2015

Character animator.


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:46 AM    Msg. 3 of 67       
"But Dennis, it's free! IT's not a violation of copyright if it's free!"

-Everyone actively associated with Halo Online, ever.


Caesar
Joined: Jul 1, 2013


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 10:20 AM    Msg. 4 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
I just want to once again make something very clear about the Halo-online game as pertains to this forum and associated websites.

Quote: it would be good if you added a board section for halo online on this forum

Halo online is not a game that is currently available in the US and does not support company sanctioned user created content. As such the distribution of (links to) mods or hacks is a direct violation of the copyright and hosting a site that supports that activity would put me personally and my company at legal and financial risk of liability.

I have already received a cease and desist order against a previous thread on this forum that linked to hacked content. Besides that fact that I will not condone or support illegal activity I will not jeopardize my company for a costly and losing legal challenge.

What that means is there will not now nor in the future be a Halo On-line section to the Halomaps.org forum just like there has never been a Halo PC section a Halo 3, 4 or 5 section.

Because it is a Halo game discussion of Halo-Online is allowed but limited to a single thread. Links to modified or hacked game content is prohibited as it it a violation of copyright laws and the forum's number one cardinal rule.

I hope this will finally make it clear about the prospect of adding a Halo-Online section to this forum. Thank you.

Dennis
Owner/Moderator
I completely disagree with you, sorry but it's true. Because the fact is everyone is fading away from Halo Custom Edition to Halo 5 or Halo Online because the game has reached up to limitation when it comes to modding. Don't let Microsoft fool you or your website this is your site Dennis you can put Halo Online section board, don't be too naive. Your the one paid this site, your the one always looking secure this site so don't let anyone take control of you because this is wrong you have the rights to do anything with this website.

Quote: direct violation of the copyright and hosting a site that supports that activity would put me personally and my company at legal and financial risk of liability.


What is violation? what modding? are you that serious Dennis? because I know many games company never made content creator before.... look at! RockstarGames! who made gta v and gta 4 when those games got released RockstarGames never supported or released a single content creator to their community! but look everyone is modding those games and now look rockstargames are completely find with it.


You gotta take our advice next time because this is silly you can't let these idiots control you, like that's really bad. This is your website Dennis not there's.

They won't do anything to your website. Don't be too nervous about this man.


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 10:32 AM    Msg. 5 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
I completely disagree with you, sorry but it's true.


Your opinion on this matter, does not matter.
I suggest you take refuge in forums that are dedicated to El Dewrito: Halo Online Hacked and illegally Modified Evolved

Not to mention that your reasoning on this matter is really really dumb.
Edited by DaLode on Oct 23, 2015 at 10:33 AM


emoose
Joined: Apr 4, 2015

Halo Online


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 10:46 AM    Msg. 6 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
I just want to once again make something very clear about the Halo-online game as pertains to this forum and associated websites.

Quote: it would be good if you added a board section for halo online on this forum

Halo online is not a game that is currently available in the US and does not support company sanctioned user created content. As such the distribution of (links to) mods or hacks is a direct violation of the copyright and hosting a site that supports that activity would put me personally and my company at legal and financial risk of liability.

I have already received a cease and desist order against a previous thread on this forum that linked to hacked content. Besides that fact that I will not condone or support illegal activity I will not jeopardize my company for a costly and losing legal challenge.

What that means is there will not now nor in the future be a Halo On-line section to the Halomaps.org forum just like there has never been a Halo PC section a Halo 3, 4 or 5 section.

Because it is a Halo game discussion of Halo-Online is allowed but limited to a single thread. Links to modified or hacked game content is prohibited as it it a violation of copyright laws and the forum's number one cardinal rule.

I hope this will finally make it clear about the prospect of adding a Halo-Online section to this forum. Thank you.

Dennis
Owner/Moderator
Wow Dennis, that was a very well-written post. I'm sad to see people insulting you and reporting your post, because I have a lot of respect for you as a modder and it's awesome to be able to hear your opinion.

First of all though, I should clearly state what the goals of this project are. The goal of the ElDewrito project is to allow players to play Halo Online outside of Russia. Primarily, this means giving players the ability to host their own servers which others can connect to and play on. However, in order to achieve this, we have had to spend a lot of time learning how the game works, and we have created some rudimentary tools to assist with editing the game's tag files.

Apparently this caused a few members of this community to spawn the idea of this project being something of a "Halo 3: Custom Edition" which is going to "overtake" HCE. I apologize if people have gone onto HCE forums and tried to misrepresent this mod as being such a thing or started flame wars. We have never officially agreed with the idea of there being any sort of "WAR." Rather, we would like to work with HCE modders to help make ElDewrito more customizable. This post you made is exactly what we've been looking for. Well I can't say anything to you but if you really don't know what to do I would say make a sticky thread and make a petition for having Halo Online Board section for it.


Everyone we need to stay as a community I don't want to see Halo Custom Edition and Halo Online starting flame war.

These engines are made by bungie don't forget that. Not saber interactive because they just modified the engine.


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 10:50 AM    Msg. 7 of 67       
Apart from Lodex, the other posts in this thread come from absolute idiots. Reachfan is a 'tard, as we all knew (and this current post shows it) Caesar and monkeyking? Please, you don't own the site, your opinion (as stated) does not matter because it is Dennis' website, not yours. He doesn't want the risk of any kind of legal action and we should understand that.


Also, where is your proof that everyone has moved to Halo 5 and Online? Pulling stats out of your ass is not proof, you just want to make the argument for adding a Halo Online section. We should accept Halo Online for what it is right now, not for what you so desperately want it to be. The developers have mentioned that it was not their intent to replace HCE, and the amount of work required to create any kind of tools to make that a possibility are still far off. I would hope to the Halo gods that it happens, but for now we just have to wait.

Caesar, you say we have reached the limits of what modding can do in CE? What can YOU do? You certainly haven't even come close to scratching any kind of limit. I suggest you think before you speak.


Edited to add that the previous post was added while I was typing this one, so the stupid posts comment of mine may not apply :P
Edited by Jesse on Oct 23, 2015 at 11:00 AM
Edited by Jesse on Oct 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM


Mootjuh
Joined: Mar 12, 2008

Hilariously derailing oneliner


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 11:04 AM    Msg. 8 of 67       
Not to mention Dewrito is illegal to use.


SOI_7
Joined: Mar 23, 2012

ZA WARUDO! TOKI WO TOMARE!


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:05 PM    Msg. 9 of 67       
I just wanna warn you that those accounts are controlled by the same person (Dennis proved it looking at their IPs), so taking them seriously and respond to them is just a loss of brain cells


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:09 PM    Msg. 10 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar I completely disagree with you, sorry but it's true.


This statement here makes you wrong and kills any argument that you may have made for three reasons:

1) Dennis's reasons for shutting down Halo Online discussions are legitimate.

2) Dennis's reasons for shutting down Halo Online discussions is not a matter of opinion, but very simply a matter of putting his business at risk (if you took the time to read about your moderator, I would hope you'd feel a sense or compassion (like I do) and sympathy (certain degrees of empathy in my case))

3) Your opinion is extremely selfish considering how selfless of a man Dennis is for our community (The Halo CUSTOM EDITION community, NOT the Halo Online Community. it is up to you to take part in the Halo Custom Edition community).

Oh, and don't even get me started on those logical fallacies.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Oct 23, 2015 at 12:10 PM
Edited by Nickster5000 on Oct 23, 2015 at 01:02 PM


Tnnaas
Joined: Jan 3, 2015

Venez voir maman. Avatar credit: kevinsano


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:10 PM    Msg. 11 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Because the fact is everyone is fading away from Halo Custom Edition
Everyone, huh?

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Because the fact is everyone is fading away from Halo Custom Edition to Halo 5
I don't own or plan to own an Xbox One. MCC is unappealing to me in its current state (I expect it'll get the H2V treatment), and I don't care for Halo 5.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Because the fact is everyone is fading away from Halo Custom Edition to Halo 5 or Halo Online
Good joke. I play the El Dewrito version on occasion, but there's nothing really for me there. I expect there will be even less for me in the final, official version.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Because the fact is everyone is fading away from Halo Custom Edition to Halo 5 or Halo Online because the game has reached up to limitation when it comes to modding.
I bet you actually believe that.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Don't let Microsoft fool you or your website this is your site Dennis you can put Halo Online section board, don't be too naive.
Dennis, don't let Caesar fool you into putting up a Halo Online section board, don't be too naive.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Don't let Microsoft fool you or your website this is your site Dennis you can put Halo Online section board, don't be too naive. Your the one paid this site, your the one always looking secure this site so don't let anyone take control of you because this is wrong you have the rights to do anything with this website.
You're suggesting that Dennis shouldn't let anyone tell him what to do and then you go ahead and tell him exactly what he should do.
I don't think you even realized what you were saying when you typed this.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
Your the one paid this site, your the one always looking secure this site so don't let anyone take control of you because this is wrong you have the rights to do anything with this website.
Which means he can do as he pleases, including choosing not to add a Halo Online board.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
What is violation? what modding? are you that serious Dennis? because I know many games company never made content creator before.... look at! RockstarGames! who made gta v and gta 4 when those games got released RockstarGames never supported or released a single content creator to their community! but look everyone is modding those games and now look rockstargames are completely find with it.
Bad example. I bet Microsoft would liken El Dewrito to the GTA V FiveM mod. Rockstar banned the mod creators' and subreddit creator's Rockstar accounts (iirc) and deemed FiveM a piracy enabling mod.


Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
You gotta take our advice next time because this is silly you can't let these idiots control you, like that's really bad. This is your website Dennis not there's.
Take his advice, Dennis. Don't let him control you. This is your website, not his.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
They won't do anything to your website. Don't be too nervous about this man.
Why risk the entire website, his career, and UXB Internet over one game? Why risk it?

Quote: --- Original message by: SOI_7
I just wanna warn you that those accounts are controlled by the same person (Dennis proved it looking at their IPs), so taking them seriously and respond to them is just a loss of brain cells
Warning received, but the replies aren't for just the one multi-account guy. It's for anyone legitimately thinking he's right.


Kinnet
Joined: Dec 27, 2013

FeelsGoodMan


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:11 PM    Msg. 12 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: emoose
Wow Dennis, that was a very well-written post. I'm sad to see people insulting you and reporting your post, because I have a lot of respect for you as a modder and it's awesome to be able to hear your opinion.

First of all though, I should clearly state what the goals of this project are. The goal of the ElDewrito project is to allow players to play Halo Online outside of Russia. Primarily, this means giving players the ability to host their own servers which others can connect to and play on. However, in order to achieve this, we have had to spend a lot of time learning how the game works, and we have created some rudimentary tools to assist with editing the game's tag files.

Apparently this caused a few members of this community to spawn the idea of this project being something of a "Halo 3: Custom Edition" which is going to "overtake" HCE. I apologize if people have gone onto HCE forums and tried to misrepresent this mod as being such a thing or started flame wars. We have never officially agreed with the idea of there being any sort of "WAR." Rather, we would like to work with HCE modders to help make ElDewrito more customizable. This post you made is exactly what we've been looking for. Well I can't say anything to you but if you really don't know what to do I would say make a sticky thread and make a petition for having Halo Online Board section for it.


Everyone we need to stay as a community I don't want to see Halo Custom Edition and Halo Online starting flame war.

These engines are made by bungie don't forget that. Not saber interactive because they just modified the engine.

Sorry but even if you have "good" intentions with this "mod" doesnt change the fact that its still illegal.
Also keep the thread like this, is very fun to read.
Edited by Kinnet on Oct 23, 2015 at 12:17 PM


Slayer117
Joined: Oct 3, 2008

Host of CE3 2010-forever!


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 12:49 PM    Msg. 13 of 67       
I'm glad for this decision. Halo Online does not belong here due to the fact the game is not even officially released yet and nor does it have a editing kit released for it. I'd see a fallout 4 forum section being placed on here more than a Halo Online forum any day.


kirby_422
Joined: Jan 22, 2006

Apparently public enemy number 1?


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 01:06 PM    Msg. 14 of 67       
Why aren't we all raging to replace halomaps, with marioMarkerMaps? It has a legal, official editing kit. We need our Mario Maker section!!11!one [/troll]

But really, it would make more sense to add a Mario Maker than Halo Online, which I assume at best, we probably only have 2 users on this forum who even fit the requirements to legally have H:O, and even then, they cannot legally modify it, making the whole point moot. I guess the Halo Online guys can go take over the Machinima section, since those whole 2 users who can legally own it can make videos... although wasn't Microsoft taking down any youtube videos of H:O?... If it was just videos they knew used doritos, they can at least legitimately do that, but otherwise, the can't even post them goofing around in movies...


sshers4
Joined: Apr 28, 2013


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 01:09 PM    Msg. 15 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: kirby_422
Why aren't we all raging to replace halomaps, with marioMarkerMaps? It has a legal, official editing kit. We need our Mario Maker section!!11!one [/troll]

But really, it would make more sense to add a Mario Maker than Halo Online, which I assume at best, we probably only have 2 users on this forum who even fit the requirements to legally have H:O, and even then, they cannot legally modify it, making the whole point moot. I guess the Halo Online guys can go take over the Machinima section, since those whole 2 users who can legally own it can make videos... although wasn't Microsoft taking down any youtube videos of H:O?... If it was just videos they knew used doritos, they can at least legitimately do that, but otherwise, the can't even post them goofing around in movies...



Microsoft did removed videos but not anymore. What about portal 2 section?


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 01:27 PM    Msg. 16 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
I completely disagree with you,
Your disagreement is irrelevant.

Quote: --- Original message by: Caesar
This is your website Dennis not there's.

That is correct why haven't you recognized that yet?


Docer
Joined: Jul 10, 2014


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 01:51 PM    Msg. 17 of 67       
This is Deniss web site if you don't like it go and make your own halo online forum and put your F** kin links there because we don't want to steal the job of others.


cippozzo
Joined: May 7, 2013

"I... I am a monument to all your sins."


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 02:00 PM    Msg. 18 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Docer
This is Deniss web site if you don't like it go and make your own halo online forum and put your F** kin links there because we don't want to steal the job of others.


Indeed.
This is a forum about Halo Custom Edition and Halo 2 Vista custom things.
Dennis can't take over Halo Online modding because he's not allowed by law and Microsoft.
Edited by cippozzo on Oct 23, 2015 at 02:00 PM


Echo77
Joined: Jul 20, 2010

Humble thyself and hold thy tongue.


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 02:02 PM    Msg. 19 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesarthis is silly you can't let these idiots control you, like that's really bad. This is your website Dennis not there's

"You can't let people tell you what to do, because the decision is ultimately up to you. Now please do the thing I want you to do."


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Holy Crust#4500


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 05:17 PM    Msg. 20 of 67       
I've known that they are the same user, but who are they again? They always seemed to be the same person to me anyway, I always placed them under the same umbrella of stupidity.

As in, which users have the same IP?


Roushyy
Joined: Jun 25, 2015

Character animator.


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 05:44 PM    Msg. 21 of 67       
I totally called it...


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:19 PM    Msg. 22 of 67       
You guys seem to be forgetting that even though H2V has "map" (it was never advertised as modding afaik) tools, he still took down content that reverse engineered halo 2. Because of laws and stuff like that. Dennis takes this stuff seriously even though some of us probably don't care. Also he's been told numerous times before to take down halo online content in this forum. So there you go.


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:24 PM    Msg. 23 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: monkeyking
Now your pulling that silly excuses " The game is is illegal" for crying out loud it's been developed by saber interactive A REAL COMPANY!
The rights to the Halo Online game is owned by Microsoft/343 and Saber Interactive. They and only they have rights to control distribution or modify the game. No one else has rights to it. Any unsanctioned modification/hack is a direct violation of the copyright and terms of use.

MS has been aggressive in issuing cease and desist orders and I have already received one for a previous thread that has since been removed. Unlike you I operate in the real world with real consequences. Not only do I agree with MS's decision and their rights I also have no childish illusions about "taking on the man".

As previously stated: Because it is a Halo game, discussion of Halo-Online is allowed but limited to a single thread. Links to modified or hacked game content is prohibited as it it a violation of copyright laws and the forum's number one cardinal rule. If you do not comply with this rule your account will be removed.


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:26 PM    Msg. 24 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: MEGASEAN2812
You guys seem to be forgetting that even though H2V has "map" (it was never advertised as modding afaik) tools, he still took down content that reverse engineered halo 2. Because of laws and stuff like that. Dennis takes this stuff seriously even though some of us probably don't care. Also he's been told numerous times before to take down halo online content in this forum. So there you go.


Then what does that make of ripping tools?


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:27 PM    Msg. 25 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: MEGASEAN2812
You guys seem to be forgetting that even though H2V has "map" (it was never advertised as modding afaik) tools,
The Halo 2 Vista game has an official and sanctioned modding tool kit supplied by Microsoft.

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
Then what does that make of ripping tools?

They fall into one of the grey areas within the copyright laws and terms of use. The programs themselves are the rights of their creator's but what they do can infringe on the rights of the game's copyright owner. To be safe I only host third party tools for the Halo games that have official modding tools.
Edited by Dennis on Oct 23, 2015 at 06:33 PM


xnx
Joined: Feb 12, 2013

h2 marine anims or i detonate the vest


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:28 PM    Msg. 26 of 67       
Hey, at least it's good that we know somebody gives enough of a damn about Halomaps to tell Dennis to remove certain things. So we're not completely irrelevant yet.




yet


emoose
Joined: Apr 4, 2015

Halo Online


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:32 PM    Msg. 27 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
Quote: --- Original message by: monkeyking
Now your pulling that silly excuses " The game is is illegal" for crying out loud it's been developed by saber interactive A REAL COMPANY!
The rights to the Halo Online game is owned by Microsoft/343 and Saber Interactive. They and only they have rights to control distribution or modify the game. No one else has rights to it. Any unsanctioned modification/hack is a direct violation of the copyright and terms of use.

MS has been aggressive in issuing cease and desist orders and I have already received one for a previous thread that has since been removed. Unlike you I operate in the real world with real consequences. Not only do I agree with MS's decision and their rights I also have no childish illusions about "taking on the man".

As previously stated: Because it is a Halo game, discussion of Halo-Online is allowed but limited to a single thread. Links to modified or hacked game content is prohibited as it it a violation of copyright laws and the forum's number one cardinal rule. If you do not comply with this rule your account will be removed.
Why not do this. Just make a section board and name it "Halo Online Russian Discussion" and put down description about saber interactive so that Microsoft see this as legal. I don't know if that's going to work but hey you can try.


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff. ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:38 PM    Msg. 28 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: emoose
Why not do this. ...[blah]...


Because I have already done this:

Quote:

What that means is there will not now nor in the future be a Halo On-line section to the Halomaps.org forum just like there has never been a Halo PC section a Halo 3, 4 or 5 section.


Stop whining and live with it.


emoose
Joined: Apr 4, 2015

Halo Online


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:40 PM    Msg. 29 of 67       
No you haven't already done it.
Edited by emoose on Oct 23, 2015 at 06:41 PM


Rosanna Weyland
Joined: Apr 4, 2013

Up and down, and all around.


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 06:51 PM    Msg. 30 of 67       
Posting in an epic thread.


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 07:03 PM    Msg. 31 of 67       
I'd say sticky this thread, because unfortunately this will go on for a long time.


Spartan314
Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 07:10 PM    Msg. 32 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: Echo77
Quote: --- Original message by: Caesarthis is silly you can't let these idiots control you, like that's really bad. This is your website Dennis not there's

"You can't let people tell you what to do, because the decision is ultimately up to you. Now please do the thing I want you to do."

This is actually hilarious haha


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 07:19 PM    Msg. 33 of 67       
Quote: --- Original message by: emoose
I am well-versed with words.


emoose
Joined: Apr 4, 2015

Halo Online


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 07:21 PM    Msg. 34 of 67       
If your not going to put a board up just make this thread sticky.


Maniac1000
-Helpful Poster-
Joined: Feb 24, 2007


Posted: Oct 23, 2015 09:51 PM    Msg. 35 of 67       
You need to use a hacked version of a leaked build to play Eldewrito thus Dennis will not have it here, simples.
The official halo online is not for western consumption, thus Dennis will not have it here, simples.
It's not hard to comprehend.
Edited by Maniac1000 on Oct 23, 2015 at 09:53 PM
Edited by Maniac1000 on Oct 23, 2015 at 09:54 PM

 
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