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Author Topic: Idea for making Halo Look better (27 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 02:46 AM    Msg. 1 of 27       
I can't run HEK on my computer, nor can I find my CD to even try and get it working again. But if someone is still making maps, try running radiosity in sapien, then cancelling it right away so all the lightmaps are black, or you can just paint extract the light maps and paint over them again.

Try lighting the maps with only dynamic lighting. 1 big one for the sun, and a bunch of small one indoors. I'm sure it will look a lot better.

Computers back in the day had a hard time using dynamic lighting, but everyone shouldn't have a problem now.

Post the pic here with your results!
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 18, 2017 at 02:46 AM
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 18, 2017 at 02:47 AM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 02:56 AM    Msg. 2 of 27       
Theres some issue with this that I cant recall right now. Dynamic lights count towards particle limit or something like that.

I remember wanting to attach a dynamic light to a sky marker and animate it to creatr a day night cycle, but finding it wasnt worth it.

But hey if its done right who knows.


Tucker933
Joined: May 27, 2010

Tucker933.com


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 09:28 AM    Msg. 3 of 27       
There's indeed a limit on dynamic lights, and things get visually glitchy when there's more than one overlapping dynamic light at different angles. Dynamic lights also don't cast shadows, and they don't locally illuminate scenery items (any light reaching them illuminates the entire item without discretion). They also don't have any occlusion whatsoever, meaning they'll over-penetrate anything within their radius, including BSP.

=/
Edited by Tucker933 on Jan 18, 2017 at 10:44 PM


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 11:06 AM    Msg. 4 of 27       
You don't need a cd to run the HEK. Just ask Jack Sparrow.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 05:25 PM    Msg. 5 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: Tucker933

There's indeed a limit on dynamic lights, and things get visually glitch when there are more than one overlapping dynamic light from different angles. Dynamic lights also don't cast shadows, and they don't locally illuminate scenery items (any light reaching them illuminates the entire item without discretion). It also doesn't have any occlusion whatsoever, meaning it'll over-penetrate anything within its radius, including BSP.

=/
Edited by Tucker933 on Jan 18, 2017 at 09:45 AM


I was hoping that you would post here, I was actually gonna say you'd be the one to ask.


gruntfromhalo
Joined: Nov 21, 2007

actual loli


Posted: Jan 18, 2017 10:19 PM    Msg. 6 of 27       
i thought you were a canadian
here you go
can you tell me what this says, it is very important

Edited by gruntfromhalo on Jan 18, 2017 at 10:19 PM


Spartan314
Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 04:21 AM    Msg. 7 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: gruntfromhalo
-snip-

Are you always this unfunny


Kinnet
Joined: Dec 27, 2013

Don't feed the hand that bites you.


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 04:55 AM    Msg. 8 of 27       
Maybe is Alex V2 ?


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 02:19 PM    Msg. 9 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: gruntfromhalo

i thought you were a canadian
here you go
can you tell me what this says, it is very important
https://a.uguu.se/P4qn68oiu7QE_666yes.png
Edited by gruntfromhalo on Jan 18, 2017 at 10:19 PM


999


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 05:41 PM    Msg. 10 of 27       
...You mean like... Aether-baked lightmaps ?


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 19, 2017 11:37 PM    Msg. 11 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
...You mean like... Aether-baked lightmaps ?


Outdated. DLMs are where its at now.

But his idea is to avoid static lighting entirely, and to replace pre-rendered lighting with realtime lighting.

Except the game's lighting engine isnt designed for it, as explained above.


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 09:28 AM    Msg. 12 of 27       
Doesn't the process of creating a DLM require aether?


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 09:46 PM    Msg. 13 of 27       
I used dynamic lights in the overdose SP, but only for interiors, It worked well until I added a bunch of other scenery. Which halo actually has a limit for all objects, so when I added to many scenery, the AI would disappear as well. I was thinking if done correctly it will look really nice. Dynamic lights really make the bump maps come out nicely.
Another Idea I had, if someone wants to make horizontal elevators, you just need to script the character to be added as a child to the elevator once he steps on.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 20, 2017 09:53 PM    Msg. 14 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420
I used dynamic lights in the overdose SP, but only for interiors, It worked well until I added a bunch of other scenery. Which halo actually has a limit for all objects, so when I added to many scenery, the AI would disappear as well. I was thinking if done correctly it will look really nice. Dynamic lights really make the bump maps come out nicely.
Another Idea I had, if someone wants to make horizontal elevators, you just need to script the character to be added as a child to the elevator once he steps on.


With open sauce DLM or directional light maps, pre-rendered light maps from 3DS max from multiple angles allowed bump maps to display constantly whether or not a dynamic light is on the surface

It was invented by valve for the source engine


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 03:19 PM    Msg. 15 of 27       
I think its been around before valve, you can use V-Ray in 3ds max for light mapping as well.

I can't remember who, but someone made a tutorial for how to do it for halo way before open sauce was around, I might have it on my old HD.
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 21, 2017 at 03:20 PM


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 21, 2017 05:19 PM    Msg. 16 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420

I think its been around before valve, you can use V-Ray in 3ds max for light mapping as well.

I can't remember who, but someone made a tutorial for how to do it for halo way before open sauce was around, I might have it on my old HD.
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 21, 2017 at 03:20 PM


I believe the process of exporting light map data from a game engine and inserting it into an external 3d scene in order to further manipulate lighting and occlusion conditions stemmed from either Disney or ILM as they used similar process's within their own pursuits.

The technique was simply adapted to suit game developers needs. Though whoever was the first to implement it within the gaming scene is still debatable...

Thought I also might add that if 3dsmax supports it you can utilise pretty much any render engine out there to bake out your DLM's.

Iray.

Vray.

Octane.

Corona.

Maxwell.

Arnold.

Redshift.


The list goes on and on....
Edited by Super Flanker on Jan 21, 2017 at 05:20 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 22, 2017 12:12 AM    Msg. 17 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420

I think its been around before valve, you can use V-Ray in 3ds max for light mapping as well.

I can't remember who, but someone made a tutorial for how to do it for halo way before open sauce was around, I might have it on my old HD.
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 21, 2017 at 03:20 PM


You misread my post;

Rendering lightmaps in 3DS MAX and rendering DLM are not the same thing.

DLM are 3 different lightmaps rendered at 3 different angles, that again, allow bump maps to be appear 24-7 from any angle constantly without a dynamic light source.

This was developed by Valve, and was not possible in Halo before opensauce implemented it.


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 23, 2017 07:00 PM    Msg. 18 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: Tucker933

There's indeed a limit on dynamic lights, and things get visually glitchy when there's more than one overlapping dynamic light at different angles. Dynamic lights also don't cast shadows, and they don't locally illuminate scenery items (any light reaching them illuminates the entire item without discretion). They also don't have any occlusion whatsoever, meaning they'll over-penetrate anything within their radius, including BSP.

=/
Edited by Tucker933 on Jan 18, 2017 at 10:44 PM


I think there is a chance it wont penetrate the bsp if made right. If you look in this pic here from Unity, a directional light is piercing mine as well. Once I finish the outer part of the building though, so a face that isn't back facing to the light, it will shield the inner part of the building from the light. If someone pulls it off, it will make Halo look 10 times better, bump maps will punch, and shadows will be crisp.

I named the images wrong, but my example is saying unless the geometry is right, it will penetrate walls as well.

Back facing



Non-Back facing



DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 23, 2017 08:26 PM    Msg. 19 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420

If someone pulls it off, it will make Halo look 10 times better, bump maps will punch, and shadows will be crisp.


What youre trying to achieve is accomplished much better by Directional Lightmaps, and without any of the drawbacks of trying to rig up dynamic lighting.



Tucker933
Joined: May 27, 2010

Tucker933.com


Posted: Jan 23, 2017 08:29 PM    Msg. 20 of 27       
That's genuinely cool, but you're still going to have a ton of lighting issues with everything that isn't BSP.


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 24, 2017 01:38 PM    Msg. 21 of 27       
You are probably right, but thought it would be worth a shot. I'll see if I can get HEK working and try it out, I remember all my pictures been lit up in overdose which was all dynamic lighting, but maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Dead hamster that looks pretty good, didn't know you could do that.
Edited by malolo420 on Jan 24, 2017 at 01:46 PM


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Jan 25, 2017 01:11 PM    Msg. 22 of 27       
Please note that directional lightmaps are an opensauce only feature, and they won't render without it or even import without opensauce.

Here is some documentation:
https://bitbucket.org/KornnerStudios/opensauce-release/wiki/Halo1/Doc_Halo1_BSPModifiers

https://bitbucket.org/KornnerStudios/opensauce-release/wiki/Halo1/Doc_Halo1_DirectionalLightmaps


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 25, 2017 02:48 PM    Msg. 23 of 27       
Full bump at every angle?



No.


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 25, 2017 11:11 PM    Msg. 24 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
Full bump at every angle?



No.


The shadows would be correct, but it would make it really pop.

Take a look at this.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LightmappingDirectional.html


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Jan 26, 2017 06:46 AM    Msg. 25 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420
Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
Full bump at every angle?



No.


The shadows would be correct, but it would make it really pop.

Take a look at this.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LightmappingDirectional.html


I'd write a 30 page book on why forcing full bump at every angle is totally unrealistic but no one would care so okay.


malolo420
Joined: Aug 5, 2007

Drugs are Bad


Posted: Jan 26, 2017 09:38 PM    Msg. 26 of 27       
Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
Quote: --- Original message by: malolo420
Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
Full bump at every angle?



No.


The shadows would be correct, but it would make it really pop.

Take a look at this.

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/LightmappingDirectional.html


I'd write a 30 page book on why forcing full bump at every angle is totally unrealistic but no one would care so okay.


The shadows would still be shown in the correct direction though, trust me its way more realistic. Every new engine does this, it just makes it look 3d, and not flat like halo looks. Halo's bump mapping still looks flat without dynamic lighting. Look at that link I sent, it shows comparisons between lightmapping, directional, and directional specular.
Also, how do you think parallax or POM mapping is done. It uses a normal map, mixed with a height map to produce a 3 dimensional effect, which it shows it all the time. Don't think of it as forcing it do to something unnatural, think of it as catching up with newer engines.


Edit:
Here is an example, The first Set without and with a normal. And the second set, without and with a normal except its looking at the light source instead of away, hence the shadows only being on one side.
I will admit, this is also POM (Parralax Occlusion Mapping, but it works the same way and is easier to show the difference.

Without Normal, facing away from light source


With normal ,facing away



Without normal facing towards



With normal facing towards



So as you can see, it definitely looks more realistic with the bump/normal always showing, and it only shows shadows on the side that's away from the light source.
What you are trying to argue is that the way Halo handles lighting looks more realistic then all the new games, even the new halo's.

Edited by malolo420 on Jan 26, 2017 at 10:03 PM


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Jan 27, 2017 03:58 AM    Msg. 27 of 27       
Rate Race just looks like that because it has unrealistic lighting in general

Sounds like a job for the Sunny Sharma! Too bad he's a disappear person


Edited by OrangeJuice on Jan 27, 2017 at 04:15 AM

 

 
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