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Author Topic: it's a thing. Halo CE 60 FPS (87 messages, Page 2 of 3)
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not m00kz
Joined: Feb 21, 2017

are you pecking kidding me


Posted: Mar 22, 2017 01:13 AM    Msg. 36 of 87       
naisu

was my automation concept a bit of inspiration by any chance


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010

Sector 09 RR: 2017


Posted: Mar 22, 2017 11:16 PM    Msg. 37 of 87       
gameplay > 60 fps

is it worth shooting for 60 fps if it plays like $%&*?


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Mar 22, 2017 11:33 PM    Msg. 38 of 87       
Sort of a dumb argument, the game will feel more responsive when running at 60 FPS, even if you have eyes like mine where you don't find 30 FPS upsetting. With 60 FPS you can open the AI up to becoming more responsive and having the ability to be able to react to things they might miss, and also opens up new abilities with the weapons such as new fire rates. In this day and age there isn't much of a reason to not be able to handle 60 FPS on most maps, unless you are playing SPV3 on integrated graphics.


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Mar 23, 2017 08:27 AM    Msg. 39 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Sort of a dumb argument, the game will feel more responsive when running at 60 FPS, even if you have eyes like mine where you don't find 30 FPS upsetting. With 60 FPS you can open the AI up to becoming more responsive and having the ability to be able to react to things they might miss, and also opens up new abilities with the weapons such as new fire rates. In this day and age there isn't much of a reason to not be able to handle 60 FPS on most maps, unless you are playing SPV3 on integrated graphics.


snark567
Joined: Mar 3, 2015

Duck bombs donít intimidate carnivorous deer.


Posted: Mar 23, 2017 12:04 PM    Msg. 40 of 87       
12 fps is best.


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Mar 23, 2017 02:53 PM    Msg. 41 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000
gameplay > 60 fps

is it worth shooting for 60 fps if it plays like $%&*?


Let me just link this last thing again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ual-1wt2c

It does not impair gameplay, in fact it will actually improve gameplay for a lot of people.

A lot of people are really distracted by the 30fps animations on any fps higher than 30.

Smoother animations means more immersion, more immersion means more focused player.

Double the ticks is double the percission so that improves gameplay too.

So, what are you even talking about, Nicky? The vid that started this topic?


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010

Sector 09 RR: 2017


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 01:12 AM    Msg. 42 of 87       
What I mean is that if the project doesn't play very well, what is the point in trying to implement 60 fps?

For instance, I know that Sector 09 could have been a lot more that it is. I know that there is things that could / should be fixed, and I have a whole list of features that I wanted to implement. I also know that Sector 09 could handle the 60 fps and look amazing with a few tweaks to its model and light maps... but if I were to come back and revisit Sector 09, I would focus on fixing the smaller things and implementing the fun features to make it more fun to play. What I am getting at is that 60 fps isn't worth implementing if the thing you're building isn't fun. There are many projects that should focus on re-evaluating their game play and not trying to implement 60 fps.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Mar 24, 2017 at 01:29 AM


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 01:26 AM    Msg. 43 of 87       
As a creator of sorts, a ``proof of concept`` doesn't have to warrant its own standalone project. It's just for posterity.

Now that it's proven to be effective(and totally viable thanks to mos), people can make whatever they want with this technique. Simple
Edited by OrangeJuice on Mar 24, 2017 at 01:38 AM


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 03:19 AM    Msg. 44 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000

What I mean is that if the project doesn't play very well, what is the point in trying to implement 60 fps?

For instance, I know that Sector 09 could have been a lot more that it is. I know that there is things that could / should be fixed, and I have a whole list of features that I wanted to implement. I also know that Sector 09 could handle the 60 fps and look amazing with a few tweaks to its model and light maps... but if I were to come back and revisit Sector 09, I would focus on fixing the smaller things and implementing the fun features to make it more fun to play. What I am getting at is that 60 fps isn't worth implementing if the thing you're building isn't fun. There are many projects that should focus on re-evaluating their game play and not trying to implement 60 fps.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Mar 24, 2017 at 01:29 AM


So basically you're trying to reiterate what is literal common sense to the people who actively work on projects with the ideology of having some semblance of balance. More accurately, you're trying to insinuate that everyone is stupid and will be more focused on presentation.

Its a method that you can implement if you want the game to play proper at higher framerates, which is completely optional. Your logic is so backwards that using it, i could argue that you should only use a single texture on the entirity of your map, and all your models be presented as boxes with words on them to tell you what they are. It'll push you to 100% focus on gameplay.

TLDR: If you dont want to use it, dont. Your ideology is backwards as hell.


Oskarmandude
Joined: Mar 16, 2013

Make Halomaps Fully Hectic Again


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 03:49 AM    Msg. 45 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000
gameplay > 60 fps

is it worth shooting for 60 fps if it plays like $%&*?

>sees vidya discussion that isn't explicitly about gameplay
>"MUH GAMEPLAY!!11111 IT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!1!!!! STOP TALKING ABOUT ANYTHIHNG ELSE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 04:55 AM    Msg. 46 of 87       
Nickster pulled a Nickster again...


Idaho
Joined: Mar 19, 2015

Mihi Libertas Necesse Est


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 09:17 AM    Msg. 47 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Oskarmandude
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000
gameplay > 60 fps

is it worth shooting for 60 fps if it plays like $%&*?

>sees vidya discussion that isn't explicitly about gameplay
>"MUH GAMEPLAY!!11111 IT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!1!!!! STOP TALKING ABOUT ANYTHIHNG ELSE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"


Calm your tits dude, he was just expressing concerns about what should really matter in H:CE custom content, it doesn't seem that he is against 60fps just that in a usual scenario people have limited time and resource and they should be more focused on quality gameplay than having 60fps or fancy looking stuffs, if you have the time and resource for both then good for you...


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 06:47 PM    Msg. 48 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Idaho
Quote: --- Original message by: Oskarmandude
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000
gameplay > 60 fps

is it worth shooting for 60 fps if it plays like $%&*?

>sees vidya discussion that isn't explicitly about gameplay
>"MUH GAMEPLAY!!11111 IT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!1!!!! STOP TALKING ABOUT ANYTHIHNG ELSE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"


Calm your tits dude, he was just expressing concerns about what should really matter in H:CE custom content, it doesn't seem that he is against 60fps just that in a usual scenario people have limited time and resource and they should be more focused on quality gameplay than having 60fps or fancy looking stuffs, if you have the time and resource for both then good for you...


He had literally no reason to say something like that if it he didn't had a stance against 60 fps mate


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 07:36 PM    Msg. 49 of 87       
Nah, I didn't get inspiration for the programs design from here. It was simple in concept so I already knew how to go about writing it from the start. I'm in the process of making an update to mozz that allows you to set a flag in the config to have game_speed related tag fields display with a 60fps scale. I've already implemented the framework for it and applied it to a bunch of fields already, so I know it'll work. The only challenge now is for michelle, masterz, and possibly killa to get me a list of every field measured in time that must and must NOT be scaled and by how much. It'll prolly take me a day to implement all the changes once they have a comprehensive list for me.

Here's the location of the flag:


And here's a 30 fps assault rifle opened in guerilla alongside it opened in mozz(with 60 fps checked). As you can see, it's doubling the times for most of the fields now that the flag is set. I haven't set it to apply the scale to all the correct fields though, just ones that inherit from a couple base fields that I modified. That will come in time.


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 09:29 PM    Msg. 50 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000

What I mean is that if the project doesn't play very well, what is the point in trying to implement 60 fps?

For instance, I know that Sector 09 could have been a lot more that it is. I know that there is things that could / should be fixed, and I have a whole list of features that I wanted to implement. I also know that Sector 09 could handle the 60 fps and look amazing with a few tweaks to its model and light maps... but if I were to come back and revisit Sector 09, I would focus on fixing the smaller things and implementing the fun features to make it more fun to play. What I am getting at is that 60 fps isn't worth implementing if the thing you're building isn't fun. There are many projects that should focus on re-evaluating their game play and not trying to implement 60 fps.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Mar 24, 2017 at 01:29 AM


This is nonsense. 60 fps provides serious increases in visual fidelity and gameplay, more so than anything else you mentioned for your project.


Ki11erFTW
Joined: Jul 4, 2009

You've seen nothing yet.


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 09:58 PM    Msg. 51 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: MosesofEgypt
Nah, I didn't get inspiration for the programs design from here. It was simple in concept so I already knew how to go about writing it from the start. I'm in the process of making an update to mozz that allows you to set a flag in the config to have game_speed related tag fields display with a 60fps scale. I've already implemented the framework for it and applied it to a bunch of fields already, so I know it'll work. The only challenge now is for michelle, masterz, and possibly killa to get me a list of every field measured in time that must and must NOT be scaled and by how much. It'll prolly take me a day to implement all the changes once they have a comprehensive list for me.

Here's the location of the flag:
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o630/MosesofEgypt/test_zpsamskewlg.png~original

And here's a 30 fps assault rifle opened in guerilla alongside it opened in mozz(with 60 fps checked). As you can see, it's doubling the times for most of the fields now that the flag is set. I haven't set it to apply the scale to all the correct fields though, just ones that inherit from a couple base fields that I modified. That will come in time.
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o630/MosesofEgypt/9e14b2c9-0475-4176-9fae-533c2d7fee4e_zpshinflvn7.png~original


Awesome work Moses. Glad our conversation last night led to this. Before, the idea of 60FPS was very questionable in terms of functionality and implementation. Moses has made the process trivial. With a few simple clicks anyone can have their tag set running at 60frames. Animations and all.


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Mar 24, 2017 10:06 PM    Msg. 52 of 87       
Actually no, mozz wont change tags that you open into 60 fps tags, it'll simply change any input you type in so it is scaled when saved to the tag, as well as descaling it when displaying it. If you have a tag set that is 30 fps, you'll still need to go in and change the correct fields for each tag by hand. This is mainly meant for those who wish to create 60fps tags from scratch, but cant be bothered to know exactly which fields to change. Maybe I can eventually write a convertor to change a set of tags into a 60 fps version, but idk.


Ki11erFTW
Joined: Jul 4, 2009

You've seen nothing yet.


Posted: Mar 25, 2017 03:36 AM    Msg. 53 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: MosesofEgypt
Actually no, mozz wont change tags that you open into 60 fps tags, it'll simply change any input you type in so it is scaled when saved to the tag, as well as descaling it when displaying it. If you have a tag set that is 30 fps, you'll still need to go in and change the correct fields for each tag by hand. This is mainly meant for those who wish to create 60fps tags from scratch, but cant be bothered to know exactly which fields to change. Maybe I can eventually write a convertor to change a set of tags into a 60 fps version, but idk.


Yeah I know. But it's still a good in my case and I'm sure many others. Being able to edit the 60FPS tags as if they are still 30 is a big help. It's worth creating the new tags especially for those who are going to be tweaking their tags while working on a big project.


Halonimator
Joined: Dec 15, 2014

https://imgur.com/ZBjOJ4L


Posted: Mar 25, 2017 05:07 PM    Msg. 54 of 87       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Quote: --- Original message by: Nickster5000

What I mean is that if the project doesn't play very well, what is the point in trying to implement 60 fps?

For instance, I know that Sector 09 could have been a lot more that it is. I know that there is things that could / should be fixed, and I have a whole list of features that I wanted to implement. I also know that Sector 09 could handle the 60 fps and look amazing with a few tweaks to its model and light maps... but if I were to come back and revisit Sector 09, I would focus on fixing the smaller things and implementing the fun features to make it more fun to play. What I am getting at is that 60 fps isn't worth implementing if the thing you're building isn't fun. There are many projects that should focus on re-evaluating their game play and not trying to implement 60 fps.
Edited by Nickster5000 on Mar 24, 2017 at 01:29 AM


This is nonsense. 60 fps provides serious increases in visual fidelity and gameplay, more so than anything else you mentioned for your project.


Stop! you poor mindless peasant.343i has shown us 60fps cant improve bad gameplay at all, it just improves games that are good like bungie halo's. imagine Halo 3 on pc at 85fps.


not m00kz
Joined: Feb 21, 2017

are you pecking kidding me


Posted: Mar 25, 2017 05:13 PM    Msg. 55 of 87       



this should be the end of it.

i have the vg48QE and hope 120-144hz becomes the standard. excluding the locked animations, moving around in ce is smooth and snappy

Quote: --- Original message by: Halonimator
Stop! you poor mindless peasant.343i has shown us 60fps cant improve bad gameplay at all, it just improves games that are good like bungie halo's. imagine Halo 3 on pc at 85fps.


too bad you can't afford a monitor that supports over 15 hz

Edited by not m00kz on Mar 25, 2017 at 05:19 PM


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Mar 25, 2017 05:44 PM    Msg. 56 of 87       
60FPS adds nothing to Halo's visual fidelity because the stock animations are 30FPS. Boosting those values doesn't add more information.



If you want better proof of why these new upgrades are necessary(despite these ridiculous claims xD ):

  • It's already been made easy to do with impunity. So too late to argue. ^_^

  • Makes interpolated 30FPS animations look twice as smooth(for them handicapped people who can't take 30+mblur without freaking out.)

  • You can store more information per second, compared to Halo's animations. Think convulsive-movements and ballerina. Impossible facial-emotions and body language that can't be portrayed with 30/25FPS Halo animation limits. Micromovements that aren't visible with lower framerates. It's up to the animator to use it wisely.

  • It's 2017 already. Which is a bad argument on its own, but consider the context: Even on submodern AND low end hardware, we've been able to push these framerates for well over a decade. It's simply time for Halo's engine limitations to take a look at a calender
    Edited by OrangeJuice on Mar 26, 2017 at 02:15 AM


  • Super Flanker
    Joined: Oct 5, 2012

    The length of your life depends on my aim.


    Posted: Mar 25, 2017 11:28 PM    Msg. 57 of 87       
    120fps when?


    MEGA_VKNG
    Joined: Dec 23, 2013

    no.


    Posted: Mar 25, 2017 11:29 PM    Msg. 58 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
    120fps when?


    gamespeed 4 and animations and values lowered even further?
    Edited by MEGA_VKNG on Mar 25, 2017 at 11:29 PM


    Ki11erFTW
    Joined: Jul 4, 2009

    You've seen nothing yet.


    Posted: Mar 25, 2017 11:34 PM    Msg. 59 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
    120fps when?


    Possible, however the higher you want to go the more space animations are going to eat up. The math also becomes a lot more complicated and the gravity modifications made for game_speed 2 are already barely stable.


    1bobsam1
    Joined: Mar 18, 2010

    I win. You lose.


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 02:15 AM    Msg. 60 of 87       
    Cool any improvement is nice to see. Good job all.


    SBB_Michelle
    Joined: Nov 4, 2015

    I am me!


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 05:37 AM    Msg. 61 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: Super Flanker
    120fps when?


    When the physics don't stop functioning properly with that


    Halonimator
    Joined: Dec 15, 2014

    https://imgur.com/ZBjOJ4L


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 02:08 PM    Msg. 62 of 87       
    Is 15fps playable?


    Masters1337
    Joined: Mar 5, 2006

    halonaminator's unfortunate idol


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 02:33 PM    Msg. 63 of 87       
    Yeah but no one has figured out how to make their map do it yet, not even me. you should try making your maps play at 15 FPS.


    altis94
    Joined: Oct 5, 2012

    What doesn't ban me makes me stronger


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 03:56 PM    Msg. 64 of 87       
    Some parts of spv3 already are 15fps for me


    not m00kz
    Joined: Feb 21, 2017

    are you pecking kidding me


    Posted: Mar 26, 2017 06:32 PM    Msg. 65 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
    60FPS adds nothing to Halo's visual fidelity because the stock animations are 30FPS.


    as true as that may be, the combat feels infinitely snappier and more responsive. get yourself a 144hz 1ms response time monitor and everything will feel like effing butter.

    as badly as the 30-locked animations stick out, it's hardly your last concern when you're trying to land shots.


    Idaho
    Joined: Mar 19, 2015

    Mihi Libertas Necesse Est


    Posted: Mar 27, 2017 12:51 PM    Msg. 66 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
    Some parts of spv3 already are 15fps for me


    lol what kind of old rag do you own? :o


    Super Flanker
    Joined: Oct 5, 2012

    The length of your life depends on my aim.


    Posted: Mar 27, 2017 02:18 PM    Msg. 67 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: Idaho
    Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
    Some parts of spv3 already are 15fps for me


    lol what kind of old rag do you own? :o


    You should see his mouse.


    Jesse
    Joined: Jan 18, 2009

    Discord: Jesse#4500


    Posted: Mar 27, 2017 05:12 PM    Msg. 68 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
    Some parts of spv3 already are 15fps for me


    B40 anyone?


    Masters1337
    Joined: Mar 5, 2006

    halonaminator's unfortunate idol


    Posted: Mar 27, 2017 05:43 PM    Msg. 69 of 87       
    Quote: --- Original message by: Jesse
    Quote: --- Original message by: altis94
    Some parts of spv3 already are 15fps for me


    B40 anyone?


    More like your crap job on portals for alpha base. At least that's what everyone complains to me about.


    DaLode
    Joined: Oct 4, 2014

    Ho ho hooooly doodle!


    Posted: Mar 27, 2017 06:12 PM    Msg. 70 of 87       
    Yeah Jesse you smell.
    I wanted to post one of them newer poop-emoticons, but halomaps doesn't support 'em.

    I did notice halomaps emoticons have this really cool retro-text describing them though:
    You've probably seen others use smilies before in email messages or other bulletin board posts. Smilies are keyboard characters used to convey an emotion, such as a smile or a frown . This bulletin board automatically converts certain text to a graphical representation when it is inserted between brackets []. Here are the smilies that are currently supported by Halo Maps Forum:

    Ah the good old days when emoticons were fresh and new. And weren't called "emojis" yet by hipsters.

     
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