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»Forums Index »Halo Custom Edition (Bungie/Gearbox) »Halo CE General Discussion »Curious, who here uses Mozz, how often, and why?

Author Topic: Curious, who here uses Mozz, how often, and why? (28 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 01:43 AM    Msg. 1 of 28       
Exactly what the title says. I'm also wondering how it's affected your workflow and how you feel about it in general. If you have something to say about the other programs in the MEK I'd love to hear it. I feel Mozzarilla and the MEK have been out long enough for most of you guys to have tried it/them.

I'm trying to get a programming job, so I might use some of your responses as kind of a way to show that I can make useful things that people prefer to use over other options. To be honest, it's probably also(depending on the responses I get) gonna be something that I can look at when I need a little cheering up. Thanks.


EDIT: Please guys, as easy as it is to rip on people being trolls or idiots in general, please refrain from that in this thread. You're all better than that.
Edited by MosesofEgypt on Apr 4, 2017 at 07:26 PM


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

I laugh at people who put STUDIOS in their name.


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 02:44 AM    Msg. 2 of 28       
It allows me to edit and animate transparent images with Krita
And import DDS files(lovely directX SDK integration).

Krita likes to ignore TIF alpha channels. But with your kit, I'm able to convert entire tag folders into .tga files and those have transparency. I use it very often for making shaders and to fake halo's blend modes in krita :)

It's also portable. No need to get the registry involved, just put mek and python on a thumbdrive and go
Edited by OrangeJuice on Apr 2, 2017 at 09:00 AM


Jesse
Joined: Jan 18, 2009

Discord: Jesse#4500


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 05:26 PM    Msg. 3 of 28       
Because of the bitmap extractor, others and I have been able to sort of reverse engineer how certain bitmaps are used or animated. In the case of H1 HUD bitmaps, It let us see how things were compiled and used (spite sequencing and stuff). Very helpful for developing HUD related tags.

Also, the fact that Moz is currently supported is a huge bonus.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 06:02 PM    Msg. 4 of 28       
Fully unlocks the tagset. There are limits in even the OpenSauce Editing Kit that causes the program to crash, these errors are not present in the engine. These aren't apparent in your app.

Organization is vastly improved by the Tree View. Tree Views or Breadcrumbs are very useful. I know many can't stand the space they take up, but for quickly navigating a tagset, it's much quicker than Guerilla (having to open tags through a file open dialogue box each time.)

Can edit different tags without crashing or corrupting them. Not going to destroy a scenario for the stock engine just by opening it in OpenSauce Guerilla by mistake. Being able to select the from the version of tags created by mutliple programs improves functionality and reduces the chance for data corruption.

Reflexive Exporting and Importing.
That's the big one. Holy cow is that useful. I can take all the AI Encounters, or every Scenery placement or whatever, and copy them to an entirely different level. Being able to export data from one tag, and save it or import it into another tag both increases functionality, decreases manual work time thereby increasing productivity, and allows for further sharing of tag data in a new, more compact format (albeit, in a far less convenient method).





Haven't used any of the other apps as I've been mostly ripping and recompiling BSP lately, but I can clearly see how useful they'll be when I'm back to tagwork again.


altis94
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

What doesn't ban me makes me stronger


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 06:08 PM    Msg. 5 of 28       
I found importing/exporting animations extremely useful, as well as opening corrupted tags which crash other HEK tools.


il Duce Primo
Joined: Apr 22, 2007

CMT Team Leader


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 08:55 PM    Msg. 6 of 28       
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 09:36 PM    Msg. 7 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


What's a firefox?


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Apr 2, 2017 11:42 PM    Msg. 8 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


Or you can use some common sense and read what the original thread says instead of being a wristwatch. Its Moses' version of Guerilla, which when put together forms a rather easy name to identify and is sorta cheesy in of itself


But do go on about how completely rewriting an existing tool that can effectively replace the original and its modifications has a name that you're too stupid to understand the natural concatenation of.


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 12:30 AM    Msg. 9 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


Man you are as dumb as that orange clown you voted for.


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 01:19 AM    Msg. 10 of 28       
Observe people, the above attitude is why the dumb orange clown won.


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 01:49 AM    Msg. 11 of 28       
As easy as it is to make these sorts of comments, please refrain from that here guys. You're all better than that.


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 10:57 AM    Msg. 12 of 28       
I blame Alison. It's her flat ass I tells you. It's messed with il-duces mind.


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Apr 3, 2017 02:41 PM    Msg. 13 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


You're being dumb, Mozz is short for Mozzarilla. that name combined guerilla and mosesofegypt.

I mean ever heard of Guerilla, sapien, tool, bonobo. Those are all halo tool names and those don't aren't called tag editor, scenario editor, multi functional program for many command line tasks, upgraded tag editor.

Stop drinking, Duce.


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Apr 4, 2017 10:58 AM    Msg. 14 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.


You're being dumb, Mozz is short for Mozzarilla. that name combined guerilla and mosesofegypt.

I mean ever heard of Guerilla, sapien, tool, bonobo. Those are all halo tool names and those don't aren't called tag editor, scenario editor, multi functional program for many command line tasks, upgraded tag editor.

Stop eating pepperoni, Duce.



Ftfy.


BipolarAurora
Joined: Aug 16, 2016


Posted: Apr 4, 2017 12:13 PM    Msg. 15 of 28       
I'm really loving it so far, especially when it comes to saving disk space with big bitmaps.

Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
wHAT THE HELL IS A MOZZ? O wait is that the name of somethign your programmed that doesntly relate to anything of whatever it does. You want a job doing what you do but clearly express a lack of common sense in how you named it. Your program could be amazing or solve the world's problem but with how you expressed its use is terrible.

You're a dumbass.


Ling Ling Lang
Joined: Jul 26, 2016

Are you finding Ling Ling?


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 01:58 AM    Msg. 16 of 28       
I often use it for general purpose tag editing, and its most valuable feature by far is import/export. Its saved me unspeakable amounts of time on my current project.


I'm also secretly hoping you expand Mozz to H2V as some of your code suggests. The default H2Guerrilla is garbage and korn's Guerrilla builds have issues or limitations.


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 12:30 PM    Msg. 17 of 28       
First off, everyone should run the upgrade function of the installer since I've fixed a chunk of significant bugs, some of which I introduced a while ago because I was in a rush when committing changes and didnt have time to properly check them.

Anyway, about the H2EK, I intend to at some point in the future, but it'll basically require me to do what I did with Halo 1 and map out every tag's structures, find out which ones are shared among all of them, put those ones in the shared commons, and figure out how things are different. As an example the header is 80 bytes rather than 64 and the non-filepath strings are now unlimited length rather than 31 char max.

I actually included an empty file in the h2ek folder, but I don't think it got uploaded with the pypi distribution. It's filename was "the stuff in here is a placeholder until i start on the h2 tag set". If enough people actually care about using Mozz for H2 then it'll give me more incentive to do it. As of right now it's one of those "It'd be really cool to do this, but I dont have the time so it's going near the bottom of my mental todo list". It'll be a lot easier if someone is able to provide me with the most recent version of kornman's h2 guerilla and any dll's required to run it. The version I've got is a beta and is pretty unstable, but I've been able to use it for some stuff.
Edited by MosesofEgypt on Apr 5, 2017 at 01:05 PM


Ling Ling Lang
Joined: Jul 26, 2016

Are you finding Ling Ling?


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 02:51 PM    Msg. 18 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: MosesofEgypt
Anyway, about the H2EK, I intend to at some point in the future, but it'll basically require me to do what I did with Halo 1 and map out every tag's structures, find out which ones are shared among all of them, put those ones in the shared commons, and figure out how things are different. As an example the header is 80 bytes rather than 64 and the non-filepath strings are now unlimited length rather than 31 char max.

I actually included an empty file in the h2ek folder, but I don't think it got uploaded with the pypi distribution. It's filename was "the stuff in here is a placeholder until i start on the h2 tag set". If enough people actually care about using Mozz for H2 then it'll give me more incentive to do it. As of right now it's one of those "It'd be really cool to do this, but I dont have the time so it's going near the bottom of my mental todo list".


I definitely understand it being a low priority, although the reason the H2EK isn't really "popular" in the first place is because so much of the default toolset is broken, and nobody really wants to fix it because its not popular, ect ect. To be more specific about what's really "needed" in terms of development tools, the iterations of Guerrilla we have do an "ok" job at general editing once you know their quirks, but many other critical tag-based limitations also exist:

Models tags cannot be extracted or directly compiled; at the moment, the only way of creating a new .render_model tag is by "upgrading" gbxmodels with a tool created by Jahrain, found here.

Animation tags cannot be compiled or extracted from cache files.

Sound tags cannot be compiled or extracted from cache files.

Those are just the most critical ones, a quick comparison between tool.exe and H2tool.exe's options should tell you the rest. Implementation of H2V tags in Mozz, or creating any of the above tools in any capacity, would basically guarantee that your tool would be a staple of the H2V mapping community.

Just food for thought.
Edited by Ling Ling Lang on Apr 5, 2017 at 02:53 PM


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 04:09 PM    Msg. 19 of 28       
I've written my own triangle strip generator in python that generates a single, contiguous strip of any mesh given to it using degen triangles to link the strips:
https://bitbucket.org/Moses_of_Egypt/snippits/src/default/stripify.py
I've used it to write my own model compiler for Gauntlet Dark Legacy. It allows me to create new models from obj files. I could probably write a model compiler that parses jms files and creates render models, but only once I understand the structure of the model files.

I could honestly probably also write a converter that converts sounds from HCE into H2V tags since I'm gonna take a wild guess that they didn't change the encodings or bitrates since they still had to play on xbox.

Animations are another story. They could have changed god knows how many things when upgrading that crap. They might have even decided to go with some kinda interpolated frame data rather than explicit frame by frame data.


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 05:55 PM    Msg. 20 of 28       
I think you'll do fine seeking a programming job.


BKTiel
Joined: Mar 18, 2014

strong independent bird needs no cage


Posted: Apr 5, 2017 10:16 PM    Msg. 21 of 28       
rip lumoriscraft


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 12:16 AM    Msg. 22 of 28       
So turns out that incorporating halo 2 into mozz is much more of a possibility in the past month than it ever has been.

https://github.com/KornnerStudios/Prometheus/tree/master/Halo%202/Tags/Xml

The source code for prometheus was released a month ago, which includes mostly complete definitions for all the halo 2 tags. The definitions are missing a small chunk of field names though, and I'll still have to figure out the extra data in the tag header since proms dev team designed their own tag header that's completely different than h2vista's. But yeah, This is much more possible now. Give credit to the prometheus team for all that work and kornman for opening this possibility up to me.
Edited by MosesofEgypt on Apr 6, 2017 at 12:22 AM


TheHaloKnight
Joined: Jun 11, 2015


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 02:06 AM    Msg. 23 of 28       
Does that mean that we will be able to mod halo 2 as we mod hce ?


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

I laugh at people who put STUDIOS in their name.


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 03:04 AM    Msg. 24 of 28       
Sure. Assuming what's left of the ragtag halo2 modding community didn't take the `` 12 years of secrecy`` route. Forcing everybody to constantly have to reverse engineer from absolute zero every time the current "guy working on halo 2 stuff" disappears

... I like it. Would be awesome to make something besides BSPs for halo 2.
(Or .. uh... totally awesome MEK-Enhanced Halo 2 BSPs !)
Edited by OrangeJuice on Apr 6, 2017 at 03:15 AM


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 03:58 AM    Msg. 25 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: BKTiel
rip lumoriscraft


I know you're a bit of a loser, but I don't even get what sort of subtle insult you're trying to convey here.


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 11:04 AM    Msg. 26 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: DaLode
Quote: --- Original message by: BKTiel
rip lumoriscraft


I know you're a bit of a loser, but I don't even get what sort of subtle insult you're trying to convey here.


Losers dont own nitro acc's. Infact if anything we are the losers.

But its as jesse said if your expectations are low you are never let down. :p


Ling Ling Lang
Joined: Jul 26, 2016

Are you finding Ling Ling?


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 01:03 PM    Msg. 27 of 28       
Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice

Sure. Assuming what's left of the ragtag halo2 modding community didn't take the `` 12 years of secrecy`` route. Forcing everybody to constantly have to reverse engineer from absolute zero every time the current "guy working on halo 2 stuff" disappears

... I like it. Would be awesome to make something besides BSPs for halo 2.
(Or .. uh... totally awesome MEK-Enhanced Halo 2 BSPs !)
Edited by OrangeJuice on Apr 6, 2017 at 03:15 AM


Every known significant development in Halo 2 modding is either public knowledge or in a github somewhere, the exception being whatever happened with the "ZTeam tools".


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Apr 6, 2017 01:22 PM    Msg. 28 of 28       
Oh crap, it ISNT extra header information, they've changed the way their reflexives are stored. hmmmm. I can work with this.

 

 
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