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Author Topic: Money (122 messages, Page 2 of 4)
Moderators: Dennis

Bungie LLC
Joined: Dec 29, 2013

friendly neighborhood contrarian funposter


Posted: Apr 24, 2017 11:53 PM    Msg. 36 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
Much more has been written. Do you read books? If so, how long is the average book you read?


Do you believe online forums to be the appropriate place for text-based discourse rivaling the length of books, fool?

Are you not humble enough to remain succinct? Have you not considered that you may receive a better reception from members of this forum if you were not so shamelessly grandiloquent, and more to the point?


Goldy De Wise
Joined: Dec 24, 2011

time to float


Posted: Apr 24, 2017 11:57 PM    Msg. 37 of 122       
This thread is all jacked up.


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010

Sector 09 RR: 2017


Posted: Apr 25, 2017 12:04 AM    Msg. 38 of 122       
ok sorry
Edited by Nickster5000 on Apr 25, 2017 at 12:05 AM


HandofGod
Joined: Jan 10, 2014

Halo Mac/MD Player & Modder


Posted: Apr 25, 2017 12:48 PM    Msg. 39 of 122       
Sparky, get away
Finish Zeus and please no more delays
Sparky, it's a habit
For you to type long posts on here is tragic
New day, no pay, five star excuses
Think it might buy you some time from more abuses

Sparky, get back
I'm all right Dennis keep your hands off my maps
Sparky, Inferno was not a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bulls***
You’re in a high-fidelity first class Halo forum
And I think I you need to show a bit more decorum

Sparky, it's a crime
Share your work if you want and don’t whine
Sparky, so they say
Halomaps members are starting to look away
If you mention money it's no surprise that they'll
Give you less attention each day, each day, each day…


BKTiel
Joined: Mar 18, 2014

strong independent bird needs no cage


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 05:44 AM    Msg. 40 of 122       
you'd better listen to this guy

he's the hand of god


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 09:06 AM    Msg. 41 of 122       


DaLode
Joined: Oct 4, 2014

Ho ho hooooly doodle!


Posted: Apr 26, 2017 02:18 PM    Msg. 42 of 122       
DO IT!

Just do it.

Make your dreams come true.


EmmanuelCD
Joined: Jan 7, 2015

I hate this comunity as much as hate my existence


Posted: Apr 27, 2017 08:34 PM    Msg. 43 of 122       
I go for a week and this happens?

Go ahead, lets see if some pays you for something


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

sparky#0096


Posted: Apr 27, 2017 10:43 PM    Msg. 44 of 122       
I am mostly interested in attracting more and higher quality work through offering the community a place to sell their work. There are very skilled artists in the community who should be making some money from their work. I intend to have a sophisticated attribution system so people can keep track of credit -- and sell their own work while at least accepting donations for using my application to make tags and maps out of assets. There is artistry in tag and map authoring and asset design. I would do a system whereby an asset artist would be able to sell their assets and use my program to convert them to tags and maps and then sell those also.

I'll get into details about terms of sale and donations later, but here is an example of what I'd like to have. You make a new vehicle model and animations in 3DS Max (not student license) or Blender or some other permissive software that lets you sell your work. You make the vehicle in such a way that it is designed specifically for HEK tag format. You design it yourself and you make the tag for it in my application. You offer the vehicle tag for sale. Someone buys your tag and puts it into their own map with a bunch of other tags that they bought. They modify your work -- the tag metadata -- as they see fit for their map, and then they offer the map for donations. In this example, the tags the second person used were available for sale, donation, or free, and their creative work which is the map they offered for donations. They used donations for their work because their map contained some stock tags but was functionally a result of their own work: map design. In most situations, map files would be offered for donations and tags would be offered for sale, because tags are more closely associated with assets. So if you make a cool splash screen for a ui.map file, then you would want to sell your .bitmap tag that you made using my application, not using the HEK. If you use the HEK to generate your tags, then you would need to offer your work for donations or for free, since the HEK does not specify permissive terms for selling files generated with it.


il Duce Primo
Joined: Apr 22, 2007

CMT Team Leader


Posted: Apr 27, 2017 10:55 PM    Msg. 45 of 122       
There may be less than a handful of people who would purchase this content, and a handful is a generous number. Most likely you will get at best a single person purchasing content for a few bucks. The demographic of people who play this game are not interested in buying tags. Get your head out of your ass.


Halonimator
Joined: Dec 15, 2014

https://imgur.com/ZBjOJ4L


Posted: Apr 27, 2017 11:28 PM    Msg. 46 of 122       
So i could sell planet flood?... mmm... 60$ and i release SP maps. Im not kidding, now betas will cost 10$, demos and DLCs 20$ and pre-releases 70$... Now Halonimator will be rich$$$.

tags cost 3$ and packs 60$.


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff.” ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 12:40 AM    Msg. 47 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
sell their assets and use my program to convert them to tags and maps and then sell those also.
No. You won't. It is a direct violation of copyright and the EULA and would trigger a Cease and Desist order from Microsoft. You cannot sell Halo Game assets.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 01:17 AM    Msg. 48 of 122       
This thread is lol. The complete disregard from Sparky of literally every single person telling him he's wrong is incredulous. Please don't lock this I want to see it play out.


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010

Sector 09 RR: 2017


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 01:20 AM    Msg. 49 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky


It's in one ear and out the other with you, isn't it?


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 01:39 AM    Msg. 50 of 122       
Art commissions aren't that hard to carry out, actually

On the other hand since we're dealing with a lowly modding community, just refuse to compile your work and disclaim as such ..oh and avoid obvious derivative works of "Halo-themed stuff".
Edited by OrangeJuice on Apr 28, 2017 at 01:59 AM


MEGA_VKNG
Joined: Dec 23, 2013

no.


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 02:32 AM    Msg. 51 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
sell their assets and use my program to convert them to tags and maps and then sell those also.
No. You won't. It is a direct violation of copyright and the EULA and would trigger a Cease and Desist order from Microsoft. You cannot sell Halo Game assets.


He's dense. Just let him do it and let him get sued.


Roushyy
Joined: Jun 25, 2015

Character animator.


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 03:37 AM    Msg. 52 of 122       
Back at it again, eh Sparky? Tell me, when do you plan to leave next?


EmmanuelCD
Joined: Jan 7, 2015

I hate this comunity as much as hate my existence


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 09:13 AM    Msg. 53 of 122       
Get a job Sparky...nobody will pay you for assets.


Its really that hard to understand?


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

sparky#0096


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 09:52 AM    Msg. 54 of 122       
There are a lot of responses here that lack love and so I will ignore them in favor of reason.

Quote: --- Original message by: Dennis
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
sell their assets and use my program to convert them to tags and maps and then sell those also.
No. You won't. It is a direct violation of copyright and the EULA and would trigger a Cease and Desist order from Microsoft. You cannot sell Halo Game assets.


OK, so I am saying that the 83 tag file formats used by the HEK programs are not copyrighted or patented, and you are saying that the 83 tag file formats are copyrighted and considered Halo Game assets. The DMCA allows for reverse engineering for interoperability with (the HEK programs), and as far as I understand it, only the files (applicable here are game client, dedicated server software, and maps with their contained tags and "assets" as I call them which are internalized data including 2d images, audio, and 3d models) that are included as the contents of the licensed Halo PC game disc are actually covered by the EULA that comes with it. Those are the "Halo Game assets" and the Halo Custom Edition free game installed files are covered by another EULA of another license. The HEK programs have their own EULA license. But the actual "Halo Game assets" that apply here are the maps and game, none of which I would be reverse engineering. The HEK programs are not "Halo Game assets", because the HEK programs are not a part of the Halo Game and have their own EULA license agreement.

So it does not make sense to me that working with tag files generated by the HEK, which has its own license as different software from both the Halo Game and the Halo CE Game, or by working with the 83 tag file formats in general, is to be called working with game assets. It's a similar or equivalent technology, but if the technology were patented and restricted in use, then Gearbox Software would not have been permitted to release the technology for free for everyone to use as the Halo Editing Kit, which itself does not even require any licensed Halo games to be installed.

So it seems to me that this does not apply to the situation of making tags with the HEK or another independently-developed application that supports saving data as HEK-compatible tag files and maps:

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/developers/rules
Quote: What content is covered?

These Rules apply to all games and Game Content published and owned by Microsoft Studios and for which Microsoft owns the copyright, trademark or other intellectual property. The only exception is Minecraft, which has its own guidelines here. Note that we can't give you permission to use games from other publishers, or Game Content where Microsoft doesn't own the intellectual property. Sorry, but you'll have to contact the other publisher or intellectual property owner for that. This is important to keep in mind for some games (like Forza Motorsport or Xbox Fitness, for example) where use of individual vehicles, tracks, exercise videos, or other brands and logos in these games may require permission from their manufacturer or owner.

If you have a question about whether these Rules apply to a particular game published by Microsoft Studios, email us at gamevids@microsoft.com.

So in short, the HEK is not a game but is an IDE for converting assets into file formats that are compatible with the Halo Custom Edition game. So the HEK and files included with it are not included as "all games and Game Content". Instead, the EULA that comes with the HEK (because it is a separate set of non-game programs) is what applies.

Do you agree with this, or can you otherwise explain how the HEK is a "Halo Game asset" even though it is not used by the game nor is it provided to work with the commercially-sold Halo PC game? If you agree that it is not technically a Halo Game asset, then the only license that applies to it is the EULA that came with it -- and it was published by Gearbox Software completely independently from Microsoft. As far as I can see, Microsoft has nothing at all to do with the Halo Editing Kit. Please correct me.

So basically, I am holding up my copy of Halo PC and saying, "this is the 'game and game content' covered by Microsoft's terms and sold with license by Microsoft." I am then indicating the Halo Custom Edition installer and saying, "this is a different 'game and game content' covered by Gearbox's terms and provided for free with license by Gearbox, and it also contains in a different format some of the 'game and game content' covered by Microsoft's terms". I am then indicating the Halo Editing Kit installer and saying, "this is not a game, nor does it contain any game content, but it is an IDE provided for free by Gearbox Software with its own license and contains no files that are 'game or game content' owned by Microsoft."
Edited by sparky on Apr 28, 2017 at 10:00 AM


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 10:07 AM    Msg. 55 of 122       
Do it sparky prove them all wrong!


John 14:6


Masters1337
Joined: Mar 5, 2006

halonaminator's unfortunate idol


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 10:46 AM    Msg. 56 of 122       
This is super ridiculous.

You ask people for their opinions, only to disagree on them on a very very shady proposal?

Just go ahead and do it if you are so confident in what you believe. While illegal I doubt anything would happen. People won't pay you money, MS won't care enough to shut you down.

Anything would be better than seeing this thread continue.


MatthewDratt
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

CE3 - Takedown - HaloCE3.com


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 10:57 AM    Msg. 57 of 122       
Takedown is now $19.99, Extermination DLC will be released soon for $29.99
CE3 2017 is an exclusive livestream. Buy into the stream with DirectTV for only $49.99/month
Edited by MatthewDratt on Apr 28, 2017 at 10:57 AM


Halonimator
Joined: Dec 15, 2014

https://imgur.com/ZBjOJ4L


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 01:37 PM    Msg. 58 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: MatthewDratt

Takedown is now $19.99, Extermination DLC will be released soon for $29.99
CE3 2017 is an exclusive livestream. Buy into the stream with DirectTV for only $49.99/month
Edited by MatthewDratt on Apr 28, 2017 at 10:57 AM


Release date?


MatthewDratt
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

CE3 - Takedown - HaloCE3.com


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 01:53 PM    Msg. 59 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: Halonimator
Quote: --- Original message by: MatthewDratt

Takedown is now $19.99, Extermination DLC will be released soon for $29.99
CE3 2017 is an exclusive livestream. Buy into the stream with DirectTV for only $49.99/month
Edited by MatthewDratt on Apr 28, 2017 at 10:57 AM


Release date?


Release date will be revealed for $34.95 on an individal basis


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff.” ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 05:53 PM    Msg. 60 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
OK, so I am saying that the 83 tag file formats used by the HEK programs are not copyrighted or patented,
You can say what you want the courts do not agree and it has been litigated ad nauseam. You cannot sell Halo game assets because you do not have the rights to the intellectual property.


Spartan314
Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 05:56 PM    Msg. 61 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: Masters1337
Anything would be better than seeing this thread continue.

Nah this is funny.
A person needs a sprinkle of drama in their life to keep it interesting.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Apr 28, 2017 08:33 PM    Msg. 62 of 122       
Sparky theoretically since the Halo patches aren't the original copyrighted software, can't you just sell Halo PC 1.10 for like 50 bucks? You would just have to make sure it's 1.10 and not 1.0 since they can't have the copyright to patches.

Then why would we have .PPF files?


Nickster5000
Joined: Dec 11, 2010

Sector 09 RR: 2017


Posted: Apr 29, 2017 03:31 PM    Msg. 63 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky

There are a lot of responses here that lack love and so I will ignore them in favor of reason.


Quote: --- Original message by: Bungie LLC
Have you not considered that you may receive a better reception from members of this forum if you were not so shamelessly grandiloquent, and more to the point?


Dennis

Joined: Jan 27, 2005

"We are made of starstuff.” ― Carl Sagan


Posted: Apr 29, 2017 05:02 PM    Msg. 64 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
Sparky theoretically since the Halo patches aren't the original copyrighted software, can't you just sell Halo PC 1.10 for like 50 bucks? You would just have to make sure it's 1.10 and not 1.0 since they can't have the copyright to patches.

Then why would we have .PPF files?
This is incorrect. You cannot sell the Halo game in any form because you do not have the rights to the intellectual property.


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Apr 29, 2017 05:47 PM    Msg. 65 of 122       
I feel sad for Dennis putting so much time in repeating the same thing over and over again... :(


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Apr 29, 2017 06:13 PM    Msg. 66 of 122       
Yup, it's a patch, it's for halo, specifically for halo.

Because it is uncompromisingly specific to halo, only its owners can make decisions on unintended use and distribution of it.

There's property. Then there's intellectual property
Edited by OrangeJuice on Apr 29, 2017 at 06:15 PM


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

sparky#0096


Posted: Apr 30, 2017 09:18 AM    Msg. 67 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
Sparky theoretically since the Halo patches aren't the original copyrighted software, can't you just sell Halo PC 1.10 for like 50 bucks? You would just have to make sure it's 1.10 and not 1.0 since they can't have the copyright to patches.

Then why would we have .PPF files?


No, because that is a modification to copyrighted software. You would need permission from the copyright holder to do this. Even if you were to distribute the patch yourself, and even if the patch were your own work, it modifies copyrighted software that you are only licensed to use, not modify.

If I were to release a patch for Guerilla, even though it is discontinued software and is copyrighted about 20 years ago (1998), that would not be made available for sale but only for free, and I would be compelled to notify the copyright holder of my contribution to their work.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Apr 30, 2017 11:05 AM    Msg. 68 of 122       
Sparky just convince 343 not to make anything Halo related for like 60 years or so and itll enter the Public Domain. Then we can just sell 1.0 with no patch needed.


EmmanuelCD
Joined: Jan 7, 2015

I hate this comunity as much as hate my existence


Posted: Apr 30, 2017 06:09 PM    Msg. 69 of 122       
You can sell your assets but once you compile them they are Microsoft property.

You can sell 3d Models and textures you made from zero but once they are compiled for HCE you cannot sell them


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Apr 30, 2017 08:02 PM    Msg. 70 of 122       
Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
You can sell your assets but once you compile them they are Microsoft property.

You can sell 3d Models and textures you made from zero but once they are compiled for HCE you cannot sell them


This is assuming you don't liscence them before they go ingame.

 
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