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Author Topic: In case y'all didn't notice, animations are no longer locked to 30fps (66 messages, Page 1 of 2)
Moderators: Dennis

Nertez
Joined: Dec 14, 2016

Zetren b&


Posted: Aug 17, 2017 10:54 PM    Msg. 1 of 66       
Say hello to >60fps animations, including, yes, first-person arms. Install Chimera. Say bye bye to jittery/choppy animations.

https://opencarnage.net/index.php?/topic/6916-chimera-build-39/&page=1

Set interpolation to 3 or greater. Enjoy Halo™


MatthewDratt
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

CE3 - Takedown - HaloCE3.com


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 12:12 AM    Msg. 2 of 66       
wow nice additional thread about this


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 12:17 AM    Msg. 3 of 66       
In case y'all didn't notice, this topic is immediately adjacent to the original version of the halomaps topic


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

sparky#0096


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 01:46 AM    Msg. 4 of 66       
So does this change the game clock speed to 1/60th of a second also, or is it merely interpolating animations, as in, anti-aliasing them so that it is still at 30 frames per second but with divided frames?


Tucker933
Joined: May 27, 2010

Tucker933.com


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 01:53 AM    Msg. 5 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
So does this change the game clock speed to 1/60th of a second also, or is it merely interpolating animations, as in, anti-aliasing them so that it is still at 30 frames per second but with divided frames?

The latter.


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 10:05 AM    Msg. 6 of 66       
In a more percise way to say it: It's taking the node locations of the last and current tick and is making inbetween positions based on the time passed since the last tick. Meaning it works on any frames per second.


002
Joined: Jan 28, 2015


Posted: Aug 18, 2017 04:57 PM    Msg. 7 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky
So does this change the game clock speed to 1/60th of a second also, or is it merely interpolating animations, as in, anti-aliasing them so that it is still at 30 frames per second but with divided frames?


The game and physics are still 30 ticks per second. It'd be awesome if I could make it 60, and at one point I did try this, but the result was that the netcode broke down when you'd exceed 34 ticks per second, and it'd take way too much work to remake the animations in 60 FPS properly as well as change physics and stuff to work properly in 60 FPS.

It merely takes the position and rotation of each model node and positions them based on how much time has passed since the previous tick. The animations themselves are unaffected. This requires less work and it scales up to any frame rate.

Edited by 002 on Aug 18, 2017 at 04:58 PM


rcghalohell
Joined: Feb 25, 2009

I can jump?Weeeee (pop!) (No1 heard from it again)


Posted: Aug 22, 2017 09:39 PM    Msg. 8 of 66       
and then theres halo on steroids where you can see beautiful stuff at 144 fps. which i have noticed


Jobalisk
Joined: Feb 8, 2014

The haiku master。


Posted: Aug 23, 2017 04:15 PM    Msg. 9 of 66       
I honestly have never cared much for framerate, anything above 27 fps is fine with me.


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Aug 24, 2017 07:13 AM    Msg. 10 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jobalisk
I honestly have never cared much for framerate, anything above 27 fps is fine with me.


I find 30 fps completely playable, but 60 FPS just feels great to play with


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Aug 24, 2017 03:46 PM    Msg. 11 of 66       
I tend to just lock most new games at 24fps or 30 because they usually have item-for-item-for-object motionblur

I dislike the soap opera effect that comes from trying to smooth out lower-framerates.


002
Joined: Jan 28, 2015


Posted: Aug 24, 2017 06:06 PM    Msg. 12 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: lolslayer
I find 30 fps completely playable, but 60 FPS just feels great to play with


Sure, 30 FPS is playable, and many people are fine with settling for it if their hardware cannot handle a higher frame rate even at lower settings.

I prefer 60 due to higher responsiveness and the overall better gameplay experience, and I'd even play the game at the lowest settings if my PC couldn't handle the game at 60 FPS just to squeeze as much FPS as I could.


Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
I tend to just lock most new games at 24fps or 30 because they usually have item-for-item-for-object motionblur


I don't know what an item-for-item-for-object is, but I turn off motion blur whenever I see the option to do so. For me, it looks bad regardless of what frame rate the game is running at, and I prefer the framerate uncapped and running at whatever it runs at unless the game engine craps out (e.g. Skyrim). I suppose this is person-to-person, though.


Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
I dislike the soap opera effect that comes from trying to smooth out lower-framerates.


If you're talking about an actually low frame rate, you're best off playing at a low native frame rate than at a higher fake, processed frame rate, or you'd basically kill whatever responsiveness you had.

If you're talking about a low tick rate like Halo's 30 ticks per second being played back at higher framerates, maybe? I'm not sure where you'd experience this, but I suppose this is another person-to-person thing. Personally, I find it easier to track enemies when I can clearly see where they're moving.


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Aug 25, 2017 06:21 AM    Msg. 13 of 66       
Don't get me wrong pls, I prefer 60 FPS, but I still play a fair amount of Halo: Reach and the 30 FPS it has doesn't bother me at all, it does if it get's below 25 though (which happens if you play 4 player split-screen).


Super Flanker
Joined: Oct 5, 2012

The length of your life depends on my aim.


Posted: Aug 25, 2017 10:20 AM    Msg. 14 of 66       
Le_Gasp


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Aug 26, 2017 08:27 AM    Msg. 15 of 66       
30fps is playable, 60fps with 30fps animations and movement is confusing.


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Aug 30, 2017 08:24 PM    Msg. 16 of 66       
I dont get why so many people are making such a big deal about this. Physics are still 30fps, and it feels slow. Pretty useless gimmick when you can just lock FPS to 30 imo
Edited by Jam on Aug 30, 2017 at 08:25 PM


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 03:00 AM    Msg. 17 of 66       
because locking to 30 FPS is for console scrubs, not to mention that the interpolation also works on the physics (so to speak). So while the calculations are still being done at a 30 FPS tick, the interpolation smooths out the result to go to whatever the hell you want to go to


lolslayer
Joined: Mar 21, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMHbAKvPJkU


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 06:35 AM    Msg. 18 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
because locking to 30 FPS is for console scrubs, not to mention that the interpolation also works on the physics (so to speak). So while the calculations are still being done at a 30 FPS tick, the interpolation smooths out the result to go to whatever the hell you want to go to


"console scrubs"

Yeah, it isn't like that, you know, all halo games on the xbox one are 60 FPS?


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 08:52 AM    Msg. 19 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
because locking to 30 FPS is for console scrubs, not to mention that the interpolation also works on the physics (so to speak). So while the calculations are still being done at a 30 FPS tick, the interpolation smooths out the result to go to whatever the hell you want to go to


it seems like objects only appear to be moving smoothly but physically they only move 30 times a second, plus control input is only registered 30 times a second. the effect is only visual while seriously wasting fps and making objects seem behind what they actually are. seems pretty useless and i don't get why people are worked up over it.

locking to 30fps removes the jittering effect and doesn't require a lot of cpu like interpolation. pretty sure most people on console don't obsess over it anyway as they just want to play a game

Edited by Jam on Aug 31, 2017 at 08:57 AM


SBB_Michelle
Joined: Nov 4, 2015

I am me!


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 09:30 AM    Msg. 20 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam

it seems like objects only appear to be moving smoothly but physically they only move 30 times a second, plus control input is only registered 30 times a second. the effect is only visual while seriously wasting fps and making objects seem behind what they actually are. seems pretty useless and i don't get why people are worked up over it.

locking to 30fps removes the jittering effect and doesn't require a lot of cpu like interpolation. pretty sure most people on console don't obsess over it anyway as they just want to play a game

Edited by Jam on Aug 31, 2017 at 08:57 AM


Get a better pc, I checked it on an old laptop of mine and it seriously does not eat as much fps as you would lead people to believe. also you are only behind 1/30th of a second which is not a big problem.

This is the same method used in 90% of games that are interpolated out of the box. Other games use methods that severely screw up physics and timings on things.

I like responsive aiming and not being locked to god awful 30fps when every other game I play is 60 and only limited to 60 because my monitor is 60hz.

Also explain me why it taking fps would even matter to you as you are suggesting to play on 30fps, which would remove a lot of responsiveness. Adding to that, the frames are severely delayed with how this game's fps limiter works, so your delayed movement argument has no ground to stand on.

I like the interpolation because it allows me to follow objects more easily as their movement actually looks like movement and not a cheap slideshow. I would personally lose 10% of my 300fps so the game actually looks proper.


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 04:05 PM    Msg. 21 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
Get a better pc, I checked it on an old laptop of mine and it seriously does not eat as much fps as you would lead people to believe. also you are only behind 1/30th of a second which is not a big problem.

whats the point? to run a mod for a 15 year old game? most people dont upgrade their pc and i have seen so many complaints about interpolation being slow even on the lowest lvl.

Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
This is the same method used in 90% of games that are interpolated out of the box. Other games use methods that severely screw up physics and timings on things.

except with halo you need some mod from some guy who barely has any name in this community and it arguably puts you more at a disadvantage. those games probably dont lose fps as much by doing so either, and for this mod the effect is only visual

Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
I like responsive aiming and not being locked to god awful 30fps when every other game I play is 60 and only limited to 60 because my monitor is 60hz.

you can aim at 60fps without this mod

Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
Also explain me why it taking fps would even matter to you as you are suggesting to play on 30fps, which would remove a lot of responsiveness. Adding to that, the frames are severely delayed with how this game's fps limiter works, so your delayed movement argument has no ground to stand on.

i am saying limiting to 30fps does not require a fast pc where interpolation apparently does, and at least it does something more than just visual and you arent seeing something that is one tick behind. interpolation at best is a gimmick which effect is only visual

Quote: --- Original message by: SBB_Michelle
I like the interpolation because it allows me to follow objects more easily as their movement actually looks like movement and not a cheap slideshow. I would personally lose 10% of my 300fps so the game actually looks proper.

what is with every pc gamers obsession with fps? its just a game and 30 is more than enough for most console games but with pc its always 60fps or its crap
Edited by Jam on Aug 31, 2017 at 05:11 PM


il Duce Primo
Joined: Apr 22, 2007

CMT Team Leader


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 04:57 PM    Msg. 22 of 66       
It's a good thing chimera does more than just interpolation.


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 05:09 PM    Msg. 23 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: il Duce Primo
It's a good thing chimera does more than just interpolation.

im sure alot of them are reasonably useful and do more than just affect visuals. my point isnt about chimera but interpolation
Edited by Jam on Aug 31, 2017 at 05:10 PM


KVOND
Joined: Sep 20, 2014

A.K.A -The Rock Candy-


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 05:47 PM    Msg. 24 of 66       
Don't like interp? don't use it, is that simple.

input at 30 fps with a controller is playable, but mouse input at 30 fps feels nasty, unresponsive and jittery.
Edited by KVOND on Aug 31, 2017 at 06:22 PM


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

discord was killing the forums anyways


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 06:49 PM    Msg. 25 of 66       
I do give it props for using actual " Re-projection " instead of the old, nasty scanline based interpolation. So you're actually getting fully rendered inbetweens.

I simply don't like it clashing with halo 1's low-poly//low-texres artstyle and it provably doesn't affect how I play. I got my skill from the days of the Geforce2 MX200

I'll play a game like omega boost with 240Hz though. Because I like that game. It's actiony, full of framecopied motionblur laser beams and chain lightning. And has fun bullethell that LOOKS good at high framerate.

Halo looks like a cheaply shot mexican telenovela at 60Rpjs

- - - - - -
Lovely tool for recording because extra motion helps a lot with splicing and editwork :)

But nope, if you're expecting me to play an actual "match" with it on? Nope !
Edited by OrangeJuice on Aug 31, 2017 at 07:09 PM


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 09:02 PM    Msg. 26 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: KVOND

Don't like interp? don't use it, is that simple.

input at 30 fps with a controller is playable, but mouse input at 30 fps feels nasty, unresponsive and jittery.
Edited by KVOND on Aug 31, 2017 at 06:22 PM

i just think its overrated. idc if ppl use mods if they want to

Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice

I simply don't like it clashing with halo 1's low-poly//low-texres artstyle and it provably doesn't affect how I play. I got my skill from the days of the Geforce2 MX200

exactly its just a visual gimmick and doesnt actually help


Tucker933
Joined: May 27, 2010

Tucker933.com


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 09:39 PM    Msg. 27 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam
...its just a visual gimmick and doesnt actually help

Art is a "visual gimmick" as well, yet there's a lot of appreciated work put into that for games.


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Aug 31, 2017 09:57 PM    Msg. 28 of 66       
If you seriously think this needs a beefy computer to run, you're probably behind a decade in gear regardless


Jam
Joined: Aug 30, 2017


Posted: Sep 1, 2017 12:28 AM    Msg. 29 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Tucker933
Art is a "visual gimmick" as well, yet there's a lot of appreciated work put into that for games.

maybe so but this isnt exactly art its no more impressive than motion blur

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
If you seriously think this needs a beefy computer to run, you're probably behind a decade in gear regardless

some people on pcs from only 6 years ago have trouble running interpolation
Edited by Jam on Sep 1, 2017 at 12:54 AM


MatthewDratt
Joined: Sep 11, 2010

CE3 - Takedown - HaloCE3.com


Posted: Sep 1, 2017 12:32 AM    Msg. 30 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam
some people on pcs from only 6 years ago have trouble running interpolation


INTEL INTEGRATED GRAPHICS 2000


cippozzo
Joined: May 7, 2013

"I... I am a monument to all your sins."


Posted: Sep 1, 2017 08:26 AM    Msg. 31 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: MatthewDratt
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam
some people on pcs from only 6 years ago have trouble running interpolation


INTEL INTEGRATED GRAPHICS 2000

intel integrated 4000, at least i played spv3's 343GS, the library and two betrayals.
Interpolation worked fine, same fps lags of 30fps mode


Spartan314
Joined: Aug 21, 2010

Former biped rigger & FP animator


Posted: Sep 1, 2017 11:26 PM    Msg. 32 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam
some people on pcs from only 6 years ago have trouble running interpolation
Edited by Jam on Sep 1, 2017 at 12:54 AM

Is that a top of the line computer from 6 years ago or is that a standard mid range computer from 6 years ago


DOOM899
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

{DM} [gamesmaster] if i can ill help maybe


Posted: Sep 3, 2017 03:54 AM    Msg. 33 of 66       
Quote: --- Original message by: Jam

Quote: --- Original message by: Tucker933
Art is a "visual gimmick" as well, yet there's a lot of appreciated work put into that for games.

maybe so but this isnt exactly art its no more impressive than motion blur

Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
If you seriously think this needs a beefy computer to run, you're probably behind a decade in gear regardless

some people on pcs from only 6 years ago have trouble running interpolation
Edited by Jam on Sep 1, 2017 at 12:54 AM
I agreed with this.


EtchyaSketch
Joined: Apr 11, 2014

S P I N


Posted: Sep 3, 2017 05:06 AM    Msg. 34 of 66       
A. Simulation sickness (motion sickness) caused by intense movement or the brains precieved notion of intense movement, combined with low framerates can cause terrible migraines or worse in many people. And even when I have camera control thats at 60+fps when other aspects of the game is still only updated at 30 it can still trigger feelings of nausea. This "Visual Gimmick" is actually an incredibly helpful tool that alleviates almost all these issues. (Take it from someone who gets pretty nauseous when having to play a game thats ~30fps up close on the monitor).

B. There is nothing "clashing" about the Art-side visuals of Halo 1 with having high framerate... Have you played the original Doom? Or Quake or any old PC FPS's that ran at high framerates? Its honestly a baffling point to even be made that a games performance can clash with a games art.


Nertez
Joined: Dec 14, 2016

Zetren b&


Posted: Sep 3, 2017 04:00 PM    Msg. 35 of 66       
Next time you're under a fluorescent lamp with no natural lighting around, wave your fingers slowly and see how it seems to 'lag' oddly. This is because fluorescent lights aren't 'on' all the time like the sun is, but pulse on and off, so you literally see your fingers move at a lower. This effect is akin to playing a game on a lower FPS than the human eye has the ability to see at, which is something like 80-100 I read in a popsi magazine when i was about 15, so I'm probably incorrect.

 
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