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Author Topic: BSP Portalling (13 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 8, 2018 05:03 PM    Msg. 1 of 13       
Does anybody have any resources regarding advanced BSP portalling. I'm looking for things like the rules regarding their creation, not a youtube video of someone extruding edges

I know how to make BSP portals, I want to make the ones that bungie has in their maps. I already discovered that you can give the portals ceilings or floors, and because of that you can stack them to create portals vertically as well as horizontally.

The main issue I currently face is that I'm getting edge_division errors in Tool when I try to make a custom portal rig for my levels, and I can't debug what's causing it to crash. Moving the portals in the map causes it to compile, so it's not the geometry itself it's the placement. The portals line up with major geometry but so far as I can tell they don't perfectly line up with any major edge-clusters of the BSP geometry.

I'm looking for old forum posts, pdf files, vid tutorials, whatever. But not the same "create face, extrude edges" tutorial that comes with the HEK. Anyone left out there that knows anything?


MosesofEgypt
Joined: Apr 3, 2013


Posted: Jan 8, 2018 07:05 PM    Msg. 2 of 13       
If you'd like some protips on portals, I've got one that I don't think most people know. I know from my own experience portalling maridia that portals are stored as a convex, co-planer, polygon. Tool (usually) only splits portals into pieces if they aren't co-planer or are concave(sometimes it goofs though and splits them anyway). If you can manage to make your portals flat and convex, you can put up to 128 vertices in each portal. You can only have 512 portal planes(exact and regular) for an entire bsp tag, and each time tool chops a portal it uses another. If every triangle in all your portals gets chopped into its own portal, you'll only have a max of 512 triangles of portal geometry! Again, this applies to both regular and exact portals.


Here's maridia if you'd like to take a look. I used only exact portals on it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/creray7gdm2gam0/New%20Maridia.max?dl=1
Edited by MosesofEgypt on Jan 8, 2018 at 07:23 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 8, 2018 09:52 PM    Msg. 3 of 13       
Quote: --- Original message by: MosesofEgypt

If you'd like some protips on portals, I've got one that I don't think most people know. I know from my own experience portalling maridia that portals are stored as a convex, co-planer, polygon. Tool (usually) only splits portals into pieces if they aren't co-planer or are concave(sometimes it goofs though and splits them anyway). If you can manage to make your portals flat and convex, you can put up to 128 vertices in each portal. You can only have 512 portal planes(exact and regular) for an entire bsp tag, and each time tool chops a portal it uses another. If every triangle in all your portals gets chopped into its own portal, you'll only have a max of 512 triangles of portal geometry! Again, this applies to both regular and exact portals.


Here's maridia if you'd like to take a look. I used only exact portals on it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/creray7gdm2gam0/New%20Maridia.max?dl=1
Edited by MosesofEgypt on Jan 8, 2018 at 07:23 PM



I want to know.



No really though, more man! Everything you know! I know so little and all the resources I've found know less.




Edit

Maridia being all exact is unfortunate as that's the more documented portal type. I did glean from your post some good info though;

Portals don't need to be a grid. They can be treated like a bubble, they have their own closed world rule in the sense that they need to either be closed by a +portal material that's seamed, or BSP structure that can be open.

The big take of that is "like a bubble"; a cube with it's normals facing inwards is a valid portal, as is taking two cubes and fusing one of their faces together. Even though the one side had double faces, the portals compiled without error in Tool or in Sapien. You can go overboard though; Tool doesn't seem to like several portals with double sided faces using the same edge, and it'll tell you YOU SHOULD FIX THIS, but it compiles.

Still doing more research. If anyone has info this is the thread for it. Time to discover one more piece of the puzzle.
Edited by DeadHamster on Jan 9, 2018 at 04:36 AM


EmmanuelCD
Joined: Jan 7, 2015

I hate this comunity as much as hate my existence


Posted: Jan 9, 2018 03:34 PM    Msg. 4 of 13       
Portals can extend past the map collision geometry,





They can cut through geometry inside the map





And they can be doublé side and have there vertexs sold




How ever they are far more effective when you créate faces in the geometry sealing complete the are o part considered as a portal, the engine will automatically discard and avoid rendering that área when not facing it


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

Thingies.


Posted: Jan 9, 2018 04:17 PM    Msg. 5 of 13       
Can always try the old crash bandicoot method of adding more geometry to render less geometry

Edited by OrangeJuice on Jan 9, 2018 at 04:58 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 12:08 AM    Msg. 6 of 13       
Quote: --- Original message by: EmmanuelCD
Portals can extend past the map collision geometry,


https://i.imgur.com/OKcH03d.png


They can cut through geometry inside the map


https://i.imgur.com/37WiOKu.png


And they can be doublé side and have there vertexs sold


https://i.imgur.com/19tlXv5.png

How ever they are far more effective when you créate faces in the geometry sealing complete the are o part considered as a portal, the engine will automatically discard and avoid rendering that área when not facing it




Can you list any other maps that are portalled the same way as in your screenshot?



I currently have a rig on my BSP very similar to the one you have there, but I believe I have too few portals. I still need to use exact_portals to close up the interiors, but I'm getting huge issues with the geometry rendering.



This is my most recent one. Geometry is constantly being unrendered; do I need more portals here?


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

Thingies.


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 12:14 AM    Msg. 7 of 13       
Is that one giant, single mesh?


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 01:08 AM    Msg. 8 of 13       
Yep, at 30K verts. I've gotten a couple portal solutions that fix the majority of the issues with rendering, but none of them had been "good" setups yet.


XxPopeAK49xX
Joined: Jan 31, 2016

It's better being a jerk.


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 08:00 AM    Msg. 9 of 13       
Rip my map Hemoasis.

http://haloce3.com/downloads/multiplayer/original-multiplayer/hemoasis/?_sf_s=hemoasis

It took me awhile to learn how to portal the map, plus fighting some errors.


OrangeJuice
Joined: Jan 29, 2009

Thingies.


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 01:20 PM    Msg. 10 of 13       
Try quickslicing it into mesh regions and portaling along the borders?

And maybe give yourself a walkaround of your level regarding the possible places your player can stand. Perhaps you have too many portals visible to the player at one time
Edited by OrangeJuice on Jan 10, 2018 at 02:31 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 02:19 PM    Msg. 11 of 13       
Quote: --- Original message by: OrangeJuice
Try quickslicing it into mesh regions and portaling along the borders?


I'm gonna have to give that a shot.

I should be taking the hint that I can't use this BSP, but it's already compiled with shaders and it's a legitimate sealed world, with the rest of the geometry compiled as scenery. Tough to let that go, when I'm so close to a solid portalling solution. There's always that one angle where it disappears somewhere far off.


Edit: Pope by the way thank you, downloaded the map and took a look. Textbook example of portalling, which was why it unfortunately didn't help. I'm trying to break the rules.
Edited by DeadHamster on Jan 10, 2018 at 02:22 PM


R93_Sniper
Joined: Feb 13, 2011

When in Doubt, RUN!


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 05:26 PM    Msg. 12 of 13       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster

but I'm getting huge issues with the geometry rendering.

This is my most recent one. Geometry is constantly being unrendered; do I need more portals here?


Opposite, you have too many within the same line of sight. Personally i try to make sure that i dont have more than 3 portals within a single line of sight because the furthest one will more often than not be culled when you dont want it to. Keep portals simple, and let the exact portals do the heavy work


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014


Posted: Jan 10, 2018 05:29 PM    Msg. 13 of 13       
Quote: --- Original message by: R93_Sniper
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster

but I'm getting huge issues with the geometry rendering.

This is my most recent one. Geometry is constantly being unrendered; do I need more portals here?


Opposite, you have too many within the same line of sight. Personally i try to make sure that i dont have more than 3 portals within a single line of sight because the furthest one will more often than not be culled when you dont want it to. Keep portals simple, and let the exact portals do the heavy work


I love you. More, smaller portals has definitely made this worse. Gonna keep trying.

 

 
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