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Author Topic: Halo: The Master Chief Collection Coming to PC (78 messages, Page 2 of 3)
Moderators: Dennis

Lateksi
Joined: Jan 1, 2010


Posted: Mar 15, 2019 09:02 AM    Msg. 36 of 78       
I hope it has some form of HEK. Otherwise it's just Halo PC with no warping.


DOOM899
Joined: Jul 23, 2013

{DM} [gamesmaster] if i can ill help maybe


Posted: Mar 16, 2019 05:22 AM    Msg. 37 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: killzone64
i had pretty much quit halo ce due to being burnt out. this news got me to log back in with everyone and celebrate. this community was a big part of my teen years, helped me though some hard times.

I'm excited for the future and to see what we will continue to create!
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/523581535551488000/555842423037755392/Halo_Ce_Mental_Screenshot_2019.03.14_-_12.29.06.37.png?width=1248&height=702
i feel the same.

i got burnt out and i stop playing halo ce, and modding it,

with mcc plus reach, it would be a better way to port things over to halo ce

or ever port the new net code over
Edited by DOOM899 on Mar 16, 2019 at 05:23 AM


The Barron
Joined: Oct 14, 2007

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Posted: Mar 16, 2019 03:09 PM    Msg. 38 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Lateksi
I hope it has some form of HEK. Otherwise it's just Halo PC with no warping.

Since the games are being released individually, I could see HEK for Halo 1 Anniversary being released alongside it. It runs on the same, albeit slightly updated blam!.

Halo 2 and onwards I doubt there would be a mod kit released.
Edited by The Barron on Mar 16, 2019 at 03:10 PM


Twinreaper
Joined: Jun 5, 2010


Posted: Mar 17, 2019 11:32 PM    Msg. 39 of 78       
Well since the MCC version of Halo 2 is a modified version of the Vista port, I highly doubt there would be any major changes to the map structure or the tools. At best, we would get the full HEK without 99% of the function branches being nulled out before compilation.

As far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!


Avoozl
Joined: Mar 17, 2019


Posted: Mar 18, 2019 03:15 AM    Msg. 40 of 78       
I only wish they'd release the games on GoG. All I really want is Halo 3 to complete the first trilogy of games, I kind of got my wish but in a bitter sweat kind of way since it's not on the platform I want.


PRPatxi
Joined: Oct 30, 2010

Dennis, free me from this suffering


Posted: Mar 18, 2019 10:45 AM    Msg. 41 of 78       
Would be funny if we saw each other while playing MCC.


The Kingx
Joined: Mar 16, 2014

ᕙ༼ ಠ益ಠ༽ᕗ


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 12:57 PM    Msg. 42 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
Each game will be released one after the other, and each game must be individually purchased.

No talk of custom content being available.

Nice try Microsoft, you're still not getting me on Windows 10. That was close though, real close.


They just announced that the game will be available for Windows 7

Also they are working on trying to add official modding tools sometime after launch (and are working with some community members, including people on the ElDewrito team)


Igotaname13_
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Igotaname13 Steam


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 02:39 PM    Msg. 43 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: The Kingx
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
Each game will be released one after the other, and each game must be individually purchased.

No talk of custom content being available.

Nice try Microsoft, you're still not getting me on Windows 10. That was close though, real close.


They just announced that the game will be available for Windows 7

Also they are working on trying to add official modding tools sometime after launch (and are working with some community members, including people on the ElDewrito team)


proof, but we've been lied to before.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/b2yhk8/mcc_pc_halo_reach_and_halo_insider_ama/ Full thread for any dork that wants to read their replies. Halo mods are back on the menu.
Edited by Igotaname13_ on Mar 19, 2019 at 02:49 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 03:02 PM    Msg. 44 of 78       
So they confirm there won't be modding support at release, confirm that it's not a focus, and state their priority lies in Security / Anti-Cheating.


So there won't be a modkit at launch, there's no confirmation on if one will ever be made, and they care more about preventing modding then supporting it. But hey, at least their good "friends" at ElDewrito (that they forced to shutdown) are going to somehow provide them with information they don't already know about their game. Because the reverse engineering ElDewrito did on the Halo Online client is applicable to releasing an already made editing kit for 5 different versions of the game engine, even though ElDewrito has never touched those editing kits. ElDewrito will be able to provide Microsoft with tons of information about their games and editing tools that they never knew about, ushering in a new era of Halo. Clearly that's not just a namedrop.

He can't even use the phrase Official Mod Support. He had to use quotes.



Quote: --- Original message by: The Kingx
They just announced that the game will be available for Windows 7



This, however, interests me greatly.
Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 19, 2019 at 03:03 PM


Igotaname13_
Joined: Nov 24, 2008

Igotaname13 Steam


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 03:07 PM    Msg. 45 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
So they...
Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 19, 2019 at 03:03 PM


Considering he's a Community Manager and it's quite literally his job to hype up the game, keep the customers on a leash, and give people hope. I absolutely have my doubts too. But, maybe. Maybe.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 03:43 PM    Msg. 46 of 78       
I really, really want to be wrong. I would much rather be wrong and everyone remind me of it than to be right. But I know what Microsoft does, and releasing Halo for PC with an unlocked editing kit is NOT what Microsoft does.

The way the story goes, the only reason we got Halo Custom Edition is because Gearbox Studios promised their fans an editing kit. But Microsoft wanted the game to fit on a single CD, and neither Bungie nor Microsoft would agree to support an editing kit release due to the hassle. So Gearbox studios ported another version of the 1.04 engine, upgraded the netcode and improved shader rendering times, and released it as a free add-on alongside the editing kit, outside of any support from Microsoft or Bungie. They also hosted this download on their own servers, which in 2004 is a bigger deal than it is today.

They didn't get additional compensation from Microsoft or Bungie for this version, outside of any increase to sales. We owe Gearbox a huge thank you. Hopefully we can say the same about Microsoft soon, but I'm not getting my hopes up.


Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 19, 2019 at 04:08 PM


1bobsam1
Joined: Mar 18, 2010

I win. You lose.


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 07:40 PM    Msg. 47 of 78       
I mean Kornman already had prototyped custom map support for the Halo 1 build.


The Barron
Joined: Oct 14, 2007

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Posted: Mar 19, 2019 07:56 PM    Msg. 48 of 78       
"If god is love you, then you can call me cupid"



The Gravemind
Joined: Jul 26, 2016

I Am The Monument To All Your Sins


Posted: Mar 20, 2019 10:07 PM    Msg. 49 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: The Barron
"If god is love you, then you can call me cupid"

https://i.imgur.com/bIzhC77.png


Oh yeah need some more of that


Twinreaper
Joined: Jun 5, 2010


Posted: Mar 21, 2019 11:20 AM    Msg. 50 of 78       
I have to formally side with DeadHamster on this one. They clearly state that Security/Stability is their primary focus and that development tools "are options they are looking at". Nothing about that statement indicates it will happen.

As said before, Microsoft ultimately does not want mod tools to end up in our hands. From a logistic and financial standpoint, what would Microsoft gain from allowing a full unlocked HEK to be released with MCC? It hurts their franchise and in the end, would render any future Halo PC useless, as you would quite literally give the "best" of the community, a way to introduce future content right inside of MCC. This would make the profit of future titles very slim. Indeed it would please the community, but it would also hurt it as well.

Halo and HEK are and can be, a double edged sword for the PC Community. Microsoft also has a proven track record or retconning anything that doesn't fit their agenda. Whether it's backpedaling on another developers promise or their own internal studio.


leyuen
Joined: Apr 3, 2010


Posted: Mar 23, 2019 03:55 AM    Msg. 51 of 78       


ghost901
Joined: Mar 4, 2010


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 04:24 PM    Msg. 52 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Twinreaper
I have to formally side with DeadHamster on this one. They clearly state that Security/Stability is their primary focus and that development tools "are options they are looking at". Nothing about that statement indicates it will happen.

As said before, Microsoft ultimately does not want mod tools to end up in our hands. From a logistic and financial standpoint, what would Microsoft gain from allowing a full unlocked HEK to be released with MCC? It hurts their franchise and in the end, would render any future Halo PC useless, as you would quite literally give the "best" of the community, a way to introduce future content right inside of MCC. This would make the profit of future titles very slim. Indeed it would please the community, but it would also hurt it as well.

Halo and HEK are and can be, a double edged sword for the PC Community. Microsoft also has a proven track record or retconning anything that doesn't fit their agenda. Whether it's backpedaling on another developers promise or their own internal studio.


That didn't stop the sales of past Halo games. What makes you think that it'll be any different this time?

The leadership from back then is hugely different from the one in charge right now.
Edited by ghost901 on Mar 24, 2019 at 04:26 PM


Twinreaper
Joined: Jun 5, 2010


Posted: Mar 24, 2019 08:48 PM    Msg. 53 of 78       
By past Halo games you mean CE and Halo 2 Vista. The latter was a flop. If CE had been able to be expanded to the level of say... Halo Reach or Halo 4 in terms of content rendering and scripting we would never need another Halo PC game, as we would just eventually find ways to rip the content and plant it into CE like we have done these past years trying desperately to recreate Halo 3 to 4. And your really gonna tell me that you wouldn't rather have CE's server hosting over whatever it is we are going to get with MCC?

So if we are given modding tools for something like Halo 4 or Halo Reach, the engine itself would be more than capable of supporting and adding future content easily. From what I see in the Slipspace engine, the lighting is the only thing that really improved over Halo 4 and 5 besides the god awful clipping and rendering distances.
Edited by Twinreaper on Mar 24, 2019 at 08:50 PM


BioGoji1989
Joined: Dec 24, 2017

Professional Idiot


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 01:13 AM    Msg. 54 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Twinreaper
Well since the MCC version of Halo 2 is a modified version of the Vista port, I highly doubt there would be any major changes to the map structure or the tools. At best, we would get the full HEK without 99% of the function branches being nulled out before compilation.

As far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!


Oh, yeah. Imagine finally being able to remake Halo 1 with the Reach engine itself! Instead of having a new graphics engine laying over an older one, it's now just one new game engine! Imagine if CMT were to recreate SPV3 using the actual Reach Engine!


Karrde
Joined: Jul 30, 2007

Power beyond containing


Posted: Mar 25, 2019 01:34 AM    Msg. 55 of 78       
Wonder if they’ll ever get around to putting all of Halo 5 on the PC as well.


killzone64
Joined: Jun 9, 2010

Mostly active on discord


Posted: Mar 26, 2019 03:32 AM    Msg. 56 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Twinreaper
As far as content creation goes in regards to Hamsters comment... don't see your logic or point? To actually state that there are no content creators in the CE or H2V community who could create good content for the other engine variations is just pressumption. I've been squeezing in quality content into H2V for the better part of 10 years...and the one thing that stops half my maps is the engines inability to handle larger poly count objects and extreme detail.

I would kill to have an HEK for Reach. In fact, Reach is really the only item in the MCC that I even want. Y'all can keep CE, 2, 3 and 4...give me Reach!


Yep ive been pushing the poly limits in ce for ages. And honestly asking for editing kits for all of halo mcc is too much. Just support halo ce and halo reach. That way existing halo ce content is playable and we can move on to halo reach which imo is the best version of the engine anyways.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: Mar 26, 2019 04:17 AM    Msg. 57 of 78       
Poly Counts have nothing to do with what I meant. A couple have commented on that, so I want to clarify;


There are 6-7 different model tags. Render Model, Collision Model, Helmet Model, Model, Imposter Model, Physics Model, etc. There are Pixel and Vertex Shader tags. There are also Global Pixel and Vertex Shader tags. The Spartan Laser uses a Beam System tag. There are Big Creature Battle tags, Death Program Selector, Cookie Purchase Globals. AI use Flock and Formation tags. Instance Imposter Definition tags, Incident Global Properties Definition tags. More Globals tags than you can shake a stick at, for everything you can imagine. Performance Throttle and Performance Template tags.

Render Method Definition, Render Method Option, Render Method Template tags. Controller rumble is handled by tags. Simulated Input is a tag. There are 12 tag classes related to Sounds and 9 different types of shaders.

I've been modding Halo 1 for 13 years, no idea what half of those might even do. If you have high-poly models, compile them in a modern, Open-Source engine. Don't try to put them into a decade old, proprietary engine with no documentation or support that was only used on one game by one dev team.



All that stuff above is why Microsoft won't give us a Dev Kit. Nobody will know how to use it properly, and there's nobody who knows enough to teach it. They had teams of specialists making this game. That was 10 years ago. The best we'll get is a Halo 2 Vista style kit that allows custom BSPs for multiplayer maps and nothing else. but we're not getting that.


killzone64
Joined: Jun 9, 2010

Mostly active on discord


Posted: Mar 26, 2019 04:47 AM    Msg. 58 of 78       
And yet people still learned halo ce despite its lack of documentation. Its not impossible and with a manual that outlines the functions of each tag type its even easier. Honestly its this kind of thought process that gave us the halo 2 editing kit in the first place.

Halo ce is one of the easiest games i have ever modded. You think ce is complicated try freelancer. That game was a pain in the rear to make content for before fan made tools were created


1bobsam1
Joined: Mar 18, 2010

I win. You lose.


Posted: Mar 26, 2019 08:12 PM    Msg. 59 of 78       
It's still better than making the people have to crack the game to make an alternate client just so they can mod the game without getting banned, and then they also have to reverse engineer everything in the game just so they can then actually mod (ElDewrito, IW4x, FiveM, Venice Unleashed just to name a few).

No documentation with provided tools will always be objectively better than the latter.
Edited by 1bobsam1 on Mar 26, 2019 at 08:14 PM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: Mar 26, 2019 10:38 PM    Msg. 60 of 78       
https://i.imgur.com/h9nMlkX.jpg

All titles are being released in 2019 apparently.


Edit: Also, to clarify again; I'm all for an editing kit. I'd love if they included one. But there's so many obstacles, and that's not what they're doing this for. I'd love if they made an editing kit, but they're not going to.



Edit2:

Link to Eldewrito Article

Apparently, the Eldewrito team getting Halo 3's campaign maps to load was a catalyst in this. Better sell it before they release it for free.

The same blog post talks about how they're not working with 343 now, but will be when it's time to implement mod support. So maybe there will be some type of something down the road. I still don't believe it.


Edited by DeadHamster on Mar 26, 2019 at 10:44 PM


Erutypus
Joined: Jan 1, 2018


Posted: Mar 27, 2019 04:12 AM    Msg. 61 of 78       

Edited by Erutypus on Jun 25, 2019 at 02:46 AM


Bottletopman
Joined: Feb 5, 2011

Blessed are the cheesemakers


Posted: Apr 2, 2019 07:00 AM    Msg. 62 of 78       
Man, what a time to be alive. Hopefully there's an editing kit so we can see the crazy stuff like we did from Custom Edition...

Also, Kornman is with 343? Damn son...
Edited by Bottletopman on Apr 2, 2019 at 07:08 AM


Prismatica7
Joined: May 5, 2019

Slipspace rupture detected!


Posted: May 5, 2019 01:47 AM    Msg. 63 of 78       
@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such. The Chief collection won't drop games individually either. They just add each game as it's ready, starting with Reach.
Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: May 5, 2019 02:31 AM    Msg. 64 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Prismatica7

@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such.
Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM



Post links or gtfo.

Everything I've read so far has been "Working with eldewrito" even though really they haven't been. I'll believe it when I see them confirm it, and not just some shill on reddit appeasing the diehards with some ambiguous non-committals. Until then the only modding support I expect to see is the kind that gets forced in by the community.


But yeah, if you can prove me wrong post links. I'd love to see them confirm they'll release an editing kit, and for which games. But if you're gonna link me to the shill on reddit saying they're friends with eldewrito, gtfo.


Prismatica7
Joined: May 5, 2019

Slipspace rupture detected!


Posted: May 5, 2019 02:37 AM    Msg. 65 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: DeadHamster
Quote: --- Original message by: Prismatica7

@DeadHamster They confirmed the opposite of both of the things you said. They plan to incorporate a mod community because crossplay isn't going to happen and such.
Edited by Prismatica7 on May 5, 2019 at 01:52 AM



Post links or gtfo.

Everything I've read so far has been "Working with eldewrito" even though really they haven't been. I'll believe it when I see them confirm it, and not just some shill on reddit appeasing the diehards with some ambiguous non-committals. Until then the only modding support I expect to see is the kind that gets forced in by the community.


But yeah, if you can prove me wrong post links. I'd love to see them confirm they'll release an editing kit, and for which games. But if you're gonna link me to the shill on reddit saying they're friends with eldewrito, gtfo.
I could've sworn I heard them say custom content support was planned on the actual stream, but they would've announced by now that the games would be separate and there's already a steam listing for the whole chief collection so that's out of the way. Don't wanna sound like the little turd I probably am, but I heard, I think it was ske7ch, on the Inside Xbox stream say that they indeed are planning for custom content support. I could be wrong.


DeadHamster
Joined: Jun 8, 2014

https://discord.gg/Neu4EJM


Posted: May 5, 2019 03:16 AM    Msg. 66 of 78       
They definitely have said they want to support it, but haven't made anything concrete and say preventing cheating is a bigger concern. The most I expect to see something like the editing kit they released for H2V, or a re-release of the H1 editing kit. Nothing that fully supports modding outside of Multiplayer Maps using the existing tagsets. Releasing and supporting in any fashion 5-6 different editing kits is unrealistic, and there's no way they can incorporate a single program to build to all platforms.

They could easily release all of bungie's editing tools, fully unlocked and without documentation and say "Good luck kids". That would be easy. But I don't think anyone expects them to do that. And everything else is hard.




Edited by DeadHamster on May 5, 2019 at 03:18 AM


Banshee64
Joined: Dec 4, 2012

oify


Posted: May 6, 2019 06:58 PM    Msg. 67 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: Karrde
Wonder if they’ll ever get around to putting all of Halo 5 on the PC as well.


God Forbid


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

Jesus is a friend to the vindictive sociopath


Posted: May 8, 2019 01:06 PM    Msg. 68 of 78       
Attention is money.
Ask the news media.
Ask marketers.
Ask advertisers.
Ask Google.
Ask YouTube.
Ask Apple.
Ask Intel.
Ask Nvidia.
Ask AMD.
Ask Dell.
Ask Yamaha.
Ask Ferrari.
Ask Disney.
Have you heard of any of these companies? Is it because they design the only possible products? No, it's because they have gotten your attention. Notice how they have so much money. I wonder why that is. Could they have so much money if no one ever realized they existed? They play the consumer game; but there are many organizations you never heard of nor see which have untold trillions of dollars. In the consumer game, though, attention is money. And it's a game of eyes and wills. Lose will and you lose eyes. Lose eyes and you lose will. Attention is money.
Ask Roblox, which keeps attention and makes many millions off of content players make using its Roblox Studio.
Ask Microsoft, which bought Halo and used it to bring attention to the first Xbox console.
Their customers not having actual modding tools since Halo 2 Vista has lost them so much money it would make their heads spin had they realized.
It would be yet another financial disgrace if Microsoft still refuses to outsource content development to its customers.

Edited by sparky on May 8, 2019 at 01:15 PM


Banshee64
Joined: Dec 4, 2012

oify


Posted: May 8, 2019 02:17 PM    Msg. 69 of 78       
Quote: --- Original message by: sparky

Attention is money.
Ask the news media.
Ask marketers.
Ask advertisers.
Ask Google.
Ask YouTube.
Ask Apple.
Ask Intel.
Ask Nvidia.
Ask AMD.
Ask Dell.
Ask Yamaha.
Ask Ferrari.
Ask Disney.
Have you heard of any of these companies? Is it because they design the only possible products? No, it's because they have gotten your attention. Notice how they have so much money. I wonder why that is. Could they have so much money if no one ever realized they existed? They play the consumer game; but there are many organizations you never heard of nor see which have untold trillions of dollars. In the consumer game, though, attention is money. And it's a game of eyes and wills. Lose will and you lose eyes. Lose eyes and you lose will. Attention is money.
Ask Roblox, which keeps attention and makes many millions off of content players make using its Roblox Studio.
Ask Microsoft, which bought Halo and used it to bring attention to the first Xbox console.
Their customers not having actual modding tools since Halo 2 Vista has lost them so much money it would make their heads spin had they realized.
It would be yet another financial disgrace if Microsoft still refuses to outsource content development to its customers.

Edited by sparky on May 8, 2019 at 01:15 PM


I asked yamaha and they said no


sparky
Joined: Jun 27, 2009

Jesus is a friend to the vindictive sociopath


Posted: May 10, 2019 11:07 AM    Msg. 70 of 78       


I bet they do SEO and buy ad space for attention because attention is money.

I think you were lied to.
Edited by sparky on May 10, 2019 at 11:08 AM

 
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