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Author Topic: Smooth Grouping Oddity- Probably a 3DS BUG? (3 messages, Page 1 of 1)
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Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

Can we just be friends? Chill my dudes...

Posted: Feb 12, 2020 08:35 PM    Msg. 1 of 3       
Well... This is probably going to be the FINAL 3DS MAX BSP geometry related question I need an explanation for...

Smooth Groups. I read that its a 3DS MAX issue.

When you weld all verts or make or delete faces, the model gets some weird shading problem and once you get it into Halo the map looks disgusting.

So, since there are thousands of maps people have made and many of them don't have this problem, how do you apply smooth groups without the weird black shaded crap happening?

OR- I take it this only happens in old 3DS MAX programs? If I use it in a newer one this wont happen?

It's really weird.

Another easy way to recreate it, make an outdoor section, apply smooth groups and just rotate around the mesh in 3DS MAX and all the structures, ground etc. will get this weird black wave-like effect all over the place.

Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4yj7cRfvSw

As seen in this video for those who have no idea what I'm talking about.
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Feb 12, 2020 at 08:40 PM

Joined: Jan 29, 2009

Still here because their site isn't active either

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 02:47 PM    Msg. 2 of 3       
Heh, it's definitely 3dsmax's fault! xD
But the HEK only allows smoothing through smoothgroups, so I guess that's that. .

That said, If you download or check out a ripped model with smooth groups already applied, you'll see that different things are in different smooth groups, based on their surface-normals

like a drinking-glass, the sides, bottom, rim, and handle each have surface normals that are close-enough to eachother that they can smoothen based on eachother. But as 'parts of a glass'(handle, base, walls....) they're different enough to need their own smooth groups so that 3dsmax can 'do it right'(90 degree angles probably wouldn't make sense to blend together)

Gotta be more selective with the things you put in the same smooth group.

And sometimes you'll have large flat surfaces that will never look good smoothed because they're flat to begin with, you can simply leave them unsmoothed and Halo will shader and gloss them as flat surfaces. Cubemaps also help too.
Edited by OrangeJuice on Feb 13, 2020 at 03:18 PM
Edited by OrangeJuice on Feb 13, 2020 at 09:05 PM

Halo CE Noob Modder117
Joined: Aug 9, 2018

Can we just be friends? Chill my dudes...

Posted: Feb 13, 2020 10:41 PM    Msg. 3 of 3       
Ok I think I might be misunderstanding something.

Usually with BSPs I NOW ONLY use smooth group number 1 on the terrain and cliffs. All the structures I usually don't apply smooth groups.

I've noticed some 'curved' forerunner structures throughout some base game maps actually are faceted and not have a smooth group applied.

I read somewhere that Halo can only use or should use up to smooth group number 3. I take it that its a load of rubbish?

One other final thing to mention- when completing a BSP in 3DS MAX is it better to export the map as ONE whole object?

OR is it better to separate the BSP into multiple objects by material ID as its like when you first import a BSP into 3DS MAX?

EXAMPLE- On import you get:

Can I export my BSP as:
Where bsp1 is the sky, ground, water, panels, floor etc. all as one object linked to the frame
Edited by Halo CE Noob Modder117 on Feb 13, 2020 at 10:52 PM


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